Saturday, July 28, 2012

Psalm 2:12 and counter missionaries

Essentially, I agree with the counter missionary position that many Christian bible intentionally mistranslate Psalm 2:12 to say "kiss the son" because the KJV and Martin Luther did.  I was in a counter missionary room where this issue was brought up, then we went on to discuss Ibn Ezra, the rabbi that was the source of what would cause Luther and the KJV to say "Kiss the Son."  Rashi was being brought up on the matter, and his rendering of Psalm 2:12, which is not what Ibn Ezra said.  Anyway, traditional Catholic bible for Psalm 2:12 say something along the lines of "cherish discipline." The issue I had with the counter missionaries they made the claim the Psalms never use Aramaic.  This claim is disputable.

Psalm 55:22 reads:

Smooth were the buttery words of his mouth but his heart was set on war; his words were softer than oil, but they are curses [פְתִחוֹת].--Psalms 55:22

RASHI comments:
but they are curses Heb. פתחות. Menachem (p. 147) interpreted it as an expression of swords, as (Micah 5:5): “and the land of Nimrod with its swords (בפתחיה),” with the edges of the sword. I say, however, that it is an expression of curse in Aramaic, as the Talmud (R.H. 31b) states: Amemar wrote a pethicha on her, which is a warrant decreeing excommunication.
The point of this is that it seems RASHI insists that the word פְתִחוֹת f'tichot is Aramaic. This is interesting since virtually every Christian translation of the Psalm has the word "sword." Regardless, the point stands, one of the most respected Jewish exegetes of the Hebrew Bible seems to insist Psalm 55:22 uses an Aramaic word, contrary to the claim made by some counterMissionaries that the Tanakh never uses Aramaic, claim it was only used at a LATER time with the interaction of the Babylonians.  It is interesting that not only the later books of the Hebrew bible uses Aramaic like Daniel, Ezra, etc, but also Genesis uses Aramaic in a verse!

Is Catholicism Pagan Rome?

Over the years I have come across a number of Protestants, many of which were Catholics, claim that Catholicism is pagan.  They often use the same claims Zeitgeist uses to "refute" all of Christianity, even Protestantism. The tactic these people use is essentially filter out all of the information that would be perceived from their view point to be antiChristian, and only allow in information that are uniquely against Catholicism.  One of their claims is about the Virgin Mary, they claim the Catholic representation of her is pagan. The book they sourced was From Bethlehem to Calvary: Initiations of Jesus by Alice Bailey--a book rewritten to "refute" the New Testament. What the antiCatholic ignored is that it calls the description of the woman in Revelation 12....pagan.


Friday, July 27, 2012

An Ex-Catholic and the Bible Canon

Another anti/ex-Catholic with the screen name "unmerited favor" has perpetuated the Protestant myth that the Catholic Church "added books" to the Bible. He claimed the Council of Trent added "16 books."

His claim is wrong on 3 points

1) We did not add these books, rather Protestants removed them
2) There are only 6-7 books (depends on how you count them) that are in dispute, not 16.
3) These books were accepted by the Church of Rome officially already in the 4th and 5th Centuries, and were quoted by Church Fathers and Popes before this.

The following quote are taken from James Gallegos quoting the early Christians , note over 1000 years before the Council of Trent, the Council of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage all included the books that Trent "added" according to this former Catholic-now antiCatholic.

"The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [ie., 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings];Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus [Sirach], one book. Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book,...lamentations, Ezechiel one book, Daniel one book, Osee ... Nahum ... Habacuc ... Sophonias ... Aggeus ... Zacharias ... Malachias ... Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books."--Council of Rome,Decree of Pope Damasus(A.D. 382),in DEN,34

"That nothing be read in church besides the Canonical Scripture. Item, that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. But the Canonical Scriptures are as follows: Genesis. Exodus. Leviticus. Numbers. Deuteronomy. Joshua the Son of Nun. The Judges. Ruth. The Kings, four books. The Chronicles, two books. Job. The Psalter. The Five books of Solomon. The Twelve Books of the Prophets. Isaiah. Jeremiah. Ezechiel. Daniel. Tobit. Judith. Esther. Ezra, two books. Macchabees, two books."--Council of Hippo,Canon 36(A.D. 393),in NPNF2,XIV:453-454

"[It has been decided] that nothing except the canonical Scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine Scriptures. But the canonical Scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus,Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon, two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, Sirach], twelve books of the Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees."--Council of Carthage III, Canon 47, 397(A.D. 397),in DEN,39-40

If this is not enough evidence that Trent did not "add" books, he is more than free too look at James Gallegos website, look at Council of Florence, which was done by the Catholic Church before the REformation, that affirmed that same canon that Trent would have.

Tuesday, July 24, 2012

Ex Catholic and Fatima

On Paltalk an ex/anti Catholic woman claimed Catholics made a big thing about waiting for the 3rd secret to come out and it never did.  However, she is wrong. Here is the text of the 3rd secret:

we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God. 


We see another ex/anti Catholic's claims to be proven false.

Sunday, July 22, 2012

Counter Missionary on Zechariah 9:9

A week ago I was in an Jewish, AntiChristian chatroom.  The Jews in the room were discussing their rejection on Christianity and Jesus Christ. One of their claims was Christians corrupted and mistranslated Zechariah 9:9, he told a Protestant that his version was corrupted and he cannot legitimately use the verse.

He claimed Zechariah 9:9 does not mention salvation in regards to Messiah (that the Messiah would bring salvation), saying there's no referance to it at all in the verse. Here is his translation from the chabad website (which he used despite not being a Karaite Jew).

Be exceedingly happy, O daughter of Zion; Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem. Behold! Your king shall come to you. He is just and victorious; humble, and riding a donkey and a foal, the offspring of [one of] she-donkeys.-Zechariah 9:9
As we can see this Jewish translation says "he is just and victorious" whereas virtually all "Christian" translations say "just and being salvation" or something along those lines.  Only a few "Christian" translations deviate and agree with the Chabad translation above.  Anyway, he insisted the Chabad translation is the best and the Hebrew word did not mean salvation since it is translated that way.

Anyway, I looked up the Hebrew word. Here is the verse in Hebrew according to the Masoretic Text, the "He is just and victorious/salvation"-- "Tzaddik v'nosha' hu" is in Red.

 גִּילִי מְאֹד בַּת-צִיּוֹן, הָרִיעִי בַּת יְרוּשָׁלִַם, הִנֵּה מַלְכֵּךְ יָבוֹא לָךְ, צַדִּיק וְנוֹשָׁע הוּא; עָנִי וְרֹכֵב עַל-חֲמוֹר, וְעַל-עַיִר בֶּן-אֲתֹנוֹת
The word in contention here is וְנוֹשָׁע "v'nosha'" the "v" or "vav" simply is the "and," so the issue here is נוֹשָׁע nosha'.  The word appears two other times in Hebrew bible with the same spelling:

Happy art thou, O Israel, who is like unto thee? a people saved [נוֹשַׁע] by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and that is the sword of thy excellency! And thine enemies shall dwindle away before thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.--Deuteronomy 33:29

O Israel, that art saved [נוֹשַׁע] by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.--Isaiah 45:17

As we can see the word is being used in connection with salvation and Isaiah 45:17 even attached it with the ordinary with associated with salvation 

Even the Chabad translation of Deuteronomy 33:29 and Isaiah 45:17 use the word salvation  for Nosha':

Fortunate are you, O Israel! Who is like you, O people whose salvation is through the Lord, the Shield Who helps you, your majestic Sword! Your enemies will lie to you, but you will tread upon their heights."--Deuteronomy 33:29

Israel shall be saved by the Lord [with] an everlasting salvation; you shall neither be ashamed nor disgraced to all eternity.--Isaiah 45:17

So, yes Zechariah 9:9 does mention the King as having salvation, but it seems that He is the recipient of it, meaning He is saved.  Perhaps, this should reflect Christ's human nature.   After all, having salvation does not necessarily imply a person lacked it at one point. I will look for a better explanation for this verse at a later time.
Anyway, it seems both the Missionary and the counter missionary were wrong about Zechariah 9:9.

Saturday, July 14, 2012

Part 2 of the Conversation

Protestant Antinomian: Berhane.... For your very own list, Just Google "Roman catholic heresies" and you can study all the years of false doctrines from the RCC and how they came about.  There are hundreds of  them.

BerhaneSelassie: I've seen this bogus list before.

BerhaneSelassie: I should make up a bogus list about you and insist you are deceived for not believing my made up list

Protestant Antinomian: It is not secret .... The cat is out of the bag.... Catholics are just Blind to the truth of their very own false religion.

Protestant Antinomian: If ALL those lists are bogus.... Then Why doesn't the RCC do something about the Slander?

Protestant Antinomian: Because they KNOW it is True....It is HISTORICAL FACT

Protestant Antinomian: anyway..... 2 Cor. 4:4 applies

BerhaneSelassie: Because we have more important things to do, and we have catholic websites refuting them, and I have already refuted the ones you posted

Protestant Antinomian: lol

Protestant Antinomian: I'm sure

BerhaneSelassie: ok ill make 100 lists against your faith, then if you dont address each one, i will insist its true because you have not complained about slander

Protestant Antinomian: actually I just posted a nice response to one of the sites that posted one of the lists against the RCC & the False Gospel ...His name was Ken Matto

Protestant Antinomian: It didn't post yet....if ever?  Until it is reviewed by him

Protestant Antinomian: want to see what I said?

BerhaneSelassie: who is he

BerhaneSelassie: i dont even understand what you are saying

Protestant Antinomian: He is a Dr, of Theology who posted one of the RCC lists of Catholic heresies and the years all your false doctrines came into existence ….. He also wrote an article titled , “How to detect a false gospel.” In which he slammed the RCC & Others…. I responded to him in Blog.

Protestant Antinomian: Have you ever googled The Roman Catholic Heresies before and read what they are and how they came into existance?  You might just  learn something.

BerhaneSelassie: DR of crap

BerhaneSelassie: ive looked into it before

BerhaneSelassie: pack of lies and bad history

BerhaneSelassie: anyone thats has read the church fathers for themselves know better than to fall for such obvious historical errors

Protestant Antinomian: Funny how whenever dozens of groups come up with the SAME pack of Lies from History, you call them crap

BerhaneSelassie: simple, because they all have to disprove my churhc

Protestant Antinomian: Did all those doctrines just come about at once?

Protestant Antinomian: lol

BerhaneSelassie: the fact is they are all break offs of my church

BerhaneSelassie: what doctriens?

Protestant Antinomian: The Bible alone disproves the RCC flase doctrines .... The Lists just tell us the dates they came about as the RCC brought them into existance

BerhaneSelassie: the fact is many of you protestants are guilty of plaguarism

BerhaneSelassie: those list are lies, the bible does no such thing, unless you read historical writings with the same level of competency as the bible

BerhaneSelassie: in which case the bible says Alien invented pizza

Protestant Antinomian: What year do you think the MASS was adopted?

Protestant Antinomian: According to the RCC?

Protestant Antinomian: Give me the Facts.

Protestant Antinomian: lol

BerhaneSelassie: The Mass is taken from the bible

BerhaneSelassie: but even then, we have the writings of St Justin Martyr on it in the mid 2nd century

Protestant Antinomian: No such thing

BerhaneSelassie: And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

BerhaneSelassie: --St Justin Martyr, First Apology, Chapter 67

BerhaneSelassie: Justin Martyr,First Apology,67(A.D. 110-165),in ANF,I:185

Protestant Antinomian: Berhane...... Lol......That has NOTHING to do with the abomination of the Roman Catholic MASS?

BerhaneSelassie: how so?

BerhaneSelassie: He writes about gathering on sunday, eatin the eucharist, and giving it others, and he even says they took it out to the sick

BerhaneSelassie: He even writes about the real presence in the eucharist in the chapter before

BerhaneSelassie: And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do in remembrance of Me, Luke 22:19 this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

Protestant Antinomian: The Mass is nothing but the Blasphemous ritual of Man TRYING to Recrucify Jesus alll over again to Pay for sins that have ALready been Paid for IN FULL > ONCE & FOR ALL by Jesus 2000 Years ago!



Protestant Antinomian: Hebrews 10:12  But this man, after he had offered >ONE< sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

BerhaneSelassie: YES IT IS ONE

Protestant Antinomian: There is NO SUCH thing


Protestant Antinomian: so NO ONE Wrote about it accept to Condemn the False Prophets who came in unaware ....The RCC


Protestant Antinomian: Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

BerhaneSelassie: "They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again"

Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to Smyrnaeans,7,1(c.A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89


Protestant Antinomian: Berhane....Notice what the BIBLE SAYS >> Heb. 10:18 “Now where remission of these is, there is NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN.”


Protestant Antinomian: there is NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN

Protestant Antinomian: there is NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN

BerhaneSelassie: YES

Protestant Antinomian: there is NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN

BerhaneSelassie: NO MORE


Protestant Antinomian: What does  > NO MORE OFFERING Mean to you?

Protestant Antinomian: His > ONE TIME OFFERING WAS ENOUGH


Protestant Antinomian: He SAT DOWN Because it was > FINISHED!

BerhaneSelassie: YES

Protestant Antinomian: He PAID IT ALL ONCE & FOR ALL

BerhaneSelassie: DEFINE PAID

Protestant Antinomian: Yet the RCC doesn't Believe that and they TRY to Place Jesus back on the Cross and Recrucify him All over again in the Blasphemous practice called the Mass

Protestant Antinomian: It is SICK


Protestant Antinomian: Paid means ALL your sin debt is Covered IN FULL....JESUS took EVERY Singles sin you would Ever commit upon Himself on the Cross and Died for them.

BerhaneSelassie: UPON HIMSELF?


Protestant Antinomian: There is NO SIN you could Ever commit that Jesus didn't see on the cross that he didn't pay for

Protestant Antinomian: Jesus never sinned... That is how he was able to Pay for your sin and mine and on the Cross the Bible tells us that Jesus Became Sin FOR US and BY HIMSELF He Purged our Sins!


Protestant Antinomian: No


Protestant Antinomian: It is WHAT JESUS DID FOR > YOU

Protestant Antinomian: “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.”  2 Cor. 5:21

Protestant Antinomian: 2 Corinthians 5:19 “To wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”


BerhaneSelassie: TRUE



Protestant Antinomian: The Bible tells us that God laid the Iniquity of us ALL upon  JESUS

Protestant Antinomian: The Bible says that Jesus was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,

BerhaneSelassie: HE TOOK THEM AWAY

Protestant Antinomian: The Bible also says that Jesus was was cut off out of the land of the living: for Your SINSstricken.


Protestant Antinomian: YES HE DID

Protestant Antinomian: Exactly as they were His ....He BORE OUR SINS The Bible says


Protestant Antinomian: Your supposed first pope Peter even agrees that Jesus > his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

BerhaneSelassie: Calvinists try to prove a penaly substitution with verses like 2 Corinthians 5:21, or Isaiah 53 and so on.  When the fact is 2 Corinthians 5:21 by saying Christ "became sin for us" is an expression St Paul was using for a sin offering, and Isaiah 53 doesn't mean God treated Christ as if He had our sins, in fact Matthew 8:17 interprets this part of Isaiah as Jesus healing the sick and casting out demons:

When it was evening, they brought him many who were possessed by demons, and he drove out the spirits by a word and cured all the sick, to fulfill what had been said by Isaiah the prophet: “He took away our infirmities and bore our diseases.”--Matthew 8:16-17

Protestant Antinomian: BARE means > to place on one's self anything as a load to be carried ... o sustain, i.e. their punishment


Protestant Antinomian: That is the BIBLICAL Definition ....But you don't believe the Biible ... do you?

BerhaneSelassie: When it was evening, they brought him many who were possessed by demons, and he drove out the spirits by a word and cured all the sick, to fulfill what had been said by Isaiah the prophet: “He took away our infirmities and bore our diseases.”--Matthew 8:16-17

Protestant Antinomian: Read 1 Peter 2:24 and tell me what it means

Protestant Antinomian: That is the verse


Protestant Antinomian: The Greek Word is anaphero and it means > BARE means > to place on one's self anything as a load to be carried ... o sustain, i.e. their punishment


BerhaneSelassie: When it was evening, they brought him many who were possessed by demons, and he drove out the spirits by a word and cured all the sick, to fulfill what had been said by Isaiah the prophet: “He took away our infirmities and bore our diseases.”--Matthew 8:16-17




BerhaneSelassie: DID JESUS GET AIDES?

Protestant Antinomian: Berhane.....Why do you want to take the Power of Salvation away from Jesus and place it upon yourself and your religion?

BerhaneSelassie: NO.


Protestant Antinomian: The context of Matt. 8 and 1 Peter 2:24 are NOT the Same.....Matt. speaks about Baring sickness and infirmities ..... 1 Peter 2:24 speaks about JESUS BARING OUR > SINS IN HIS OWN BODY ON THE VROSS!!!

Protestant Antinomian: CROSS

BerhaneSelassie: I agree, but they are both using Isaiah 53 and BOTH using the term "bare"

Protestant Antinomian: So the Issue is your SINS and WHO PAID THEM

Protestant Antinomian: The BIBLE Says that > JESUS BORE THEM ALL ON THE CROSS > BY HIMSELF!

Protestant Antinomian: Didn't need your help

Protestant Antinomian: I pray you see this soon

BerhaneSelassie: If when Jesus "bore" our diseases, He did not get sick himself with herpes, then why do you suppose when JEsus "bore" our sins, that he was imputed with sin as if He himself sinned?

BerhaneSelassie: your idea of "bore" is not what the NT says

Protestant Antinomian: Do you realize that the Word in Matt. is NOT even the Same word used in 1 Peter 2:24?....It has a Different Meaning

Protestant Antinomian: Did you even Study this Berhane.... or still trying to Cover the False doctrines of the RCC?

Protestant Antinomian: Jesus simple healed them with > HIS WORD

Protestant Antinomian: YOUR SINS He Bore with > HIS BODY ON THE CROSS!

Protestant Antinomian: Hope that helps

Protestant Antinomian: TRUST JESUS....NOT RELIGION

Protestant Antinomian: JESUS PAID IT ALL FOR > YOU

    (@online) Protestant Antinomian is currently chatting in, Believers And Seekers

BerhaneSelassie: thats because the word bore is not even used in 1 Peter

Protestant Antinomian: The Definition is NOT THE SAME BERHANE

Protestant Antinomian: Look it up....Don't MAKE it UP

BerhaneSelassie: the word in 1 Peter 2:24 refers to an offering

Protestant Antinomian: Did you know that if you die NOT Believing in JESUS FULL PAYMENT for your sins, then the consequence will be ETERNAL DAMNATION APart from God in the Lake of Fire?

Protestant Antinomian: HE IS THE OFFERING as a LAMB Without Blemish who DIED & SHED HIS SINLESS BLOOD for the SINS of the WHOLE WORLD!

BerhaneSelassie: Here are all the verses that use the word for "bore" in the KJV...its ANENEGKAS

BerhaneSelassie: AV Lk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

AV Lk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

AV Hb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

AV Hb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

AV Hb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name.

AV Ja 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

AV 1Pt 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

AV 1Pt 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

BerhaneSelassie: 1 Peter 2:5 is especially important since its the same author and roughly the same text

BerhaneSelassie: the word there is translated "offer up" there, not "bore"

Protestant Antinomian: I showed you the Definition..... Why do you want to change it?

BerhaneSelassie: the word exactly there is anenegkai

BerhaneSelassie: its the same root

Protestant Antinomian: Why do you want to chage the Meaning ?

Protestant Antinomian: lol

Protestant Antinomian: don't be that way Berhane....accept the TRUTH

Protestant Antinomian: The TRUTH is still the TRUTH whether you Believe it or not

Protestant Antinomian: you cannot fool God

Protestant Antinomian: You don't fool me and you are only fooling yourself

BerhaneSelassie: here is your beloved strongs on it  G399  anaphero  an-af-er'-o

from G303 and G5342;

to take up (literally or figuratively).

Protestant Antinomian: your religion is false and cannot Help you

BerhaneSelassie: Thayer

1) to carry or bring up, to lead up

1a) men to a higher place

2) to put upon the altar, to bring to the altar, to offer

3) to lift up one's self, to take upon one's self

3a) to place on one's self anything as a load to be carried

3b) to sustain, i.e. their punishment

Part of Speech: verb

Citing in TDNT: 9:60, 1252

Protestant Antinomian: Hebrews 9:12 “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in ONCE into the holy place, HAVING OBTAINED ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us.” 

BerhaneSelassie: you picked ONE of the dozen of the "meanings"

Protestant Antinomian: SUSTAINED MY PUNISHMENT!

Protestant Antinomian: CONTEXT Berhane....CONTEXT

Protestant Antinomian: You always \vere from that

BerhaneSelassie: View this entry in a new window / back to top


I. to bring or carry up, Od., etc.; ἀν. τινὰ εἰς Ὄλυμπον Xen.:— to carry up the country, esp. into Central Asia, Hdt.:—Mid. to carry up to a place of safety, take with one, id=Xen.

2. to bring up, pour forth, tears, Aesch.:—Mid., ἀνενείκασθαι, absol. to fetch up a deep-drawn breath, heave a deep sigh, Il., Hdt.:—c. acc. rei, to utter, ἀνενείκατο φωνάν, μῦθον Theocr.

3. to uphold, take upon one, ἄχθος Aesch.; κινδύνους Thuc.

4. to offer, contribute, εἰς τὸ κοινόν Dem.:— to offer in sacrifice, NTest.

5. intr. to lead up, of a road, Xen.

II. to bring or carry back, Eur., etc.; ἀν. τὰς κώπας to recover the oars, at the end of the stroke, Thuc.

2. to bring back tidings, report, Hdt., etc.

3. to bring back from exile, Thuc.

4. to carry back, trace up one's family to an ancestor, Plat.

5. to refer a matter to another, Hdt., etc.: to ascribe, Eur., etc.:—without acc., ἀν. εἴς τινα to appeal to another, make reference to him, Hdt., Plat.:—of things, ἀν. εἴς τι to have reference to a thing, Plat.

6. to bring back, restore, recover, Thuc.:—Pass. to recover oneself, come to oneself, Hdt.:—so also intr. in Act. to come to oneself, recover, id=Plat., etc.

7. to return, yield, as revenue, Xen.

8. to recall a likeness, Plut.

BerhaneSelassie: thayers is not a compentent lexicon either

Protestant Antinomian: Berhane.... What does this verse say to you?

Protestant Antinomian: Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

BerhaneSelassie: Liddle scotts is far better, and t doesnt seem to support that

BerhaneSelassie: It means He died for our sins once

Protestant Antinomian: Berhane..... lol.....Why do you keep trying to Change Gods word?

Protestant Antinomian: How many sins?

Protestant Antinomian: Not just adams sin

Protestant Antinomian: YOUR SINS

    (@online) Protestant Antinomian came online at  1:16 AM, and says, Believers And Seekers

BerhaneSelassie: i agree


BerhaneSelassie: so?

Protestant Antinomian: SO IT IS ALL PAID FOR IN FULL > ONVE & FOR ALL

Protestant Antinomian: He PAD FOR YOUR SINS

Protestant Antinomian: NOT Just Adams sin

Protestant Antinomian: ALL YOUR SINS Plural!

Protestant Antinomian: Every single sin you would ever commit

Protestant Antinomian: 1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS; and in him is no sin.

Protestant Antinomian: I pray you will come to TRUST JESUS TOOK AWAY YOUR SINS BY HIMSELF ON THE CROSS!

Protestant Antinomian: Bye

BerhaneSelassie: He took them away, as if He picked them up and carried them away---not as if He took them and kept them for Himself