Friday, December 27, 2013

Psalm 22:16 notes: Karu or Kaari?

Note: Look at the comment by catholicnick for a compelling argument "pierced" would be used and not lion, based on the list of animals, which is reversed in Psalm 22.

Psalm 22:16 (verse 17 in some numbering, Psalm 21 in LXX and the Vulgate) has been a verse in dispute between Christians and Jews for a few hundred years. The issue is less over translation, and more over what the Hebrew text says. The modern Hebrew text reads:

 כארי ידי ורגלי --Psalm 22:16 (Masoretic Text with vowels removed)

Like a lion, my hands and feet.--Psalm 22:16b (Masoretic translation)

The word  כארי (kari) means "like a lion,"  "ארי" referring to a lion, and "כ" meaning "like."  The issue is that Christians have always read this as "they have dug/pierced." We find the word pierced in several ancient translations:

ὤρυξαν χεῖράς μου καὶ πόδας --Psalm 22:17b Greek Septuagint(Psalm 22:16 in non LXX numbering) ὤρυξαν meaning "dig/bury"

"They have gouged my hands and feet"--Psalm 22:17b (NETS translation of the LXX)

 ܒܙܥܘ ܐ̈ܝܕܝ ܘܪ̈ܓܠܝ--Psalm 22:17 Peshitta text (Aramaic) ܒܙܥܘ meaning bury, dig, pierced, wounded.

Foderunt manus meas et pedes meos;--Psalm 21:17 Latin Vulgate, Foderunt meaning "dig."

We also have the Targum of the Psalms which is in Aramaic and reads:

  נכתין היך כאריא אידי ורגלי .--Psalm 22:17b Targum נכתין meaning "bite" and כאריא meaning "as a lion""
they bite my hands and feet like a lion"--Psalm 22:17 Targum translation
 This is interesting since it makes it obvious that Psalm 22:16/7 is reference to biting/piercing since, what else would you expect a lion to do at your "hands and feet"? The Masoretic reading does not explicit say, though it should be obvious and antimissionaries act as if the lion would not pierce the hands and keep, perhaps lick them even?

Finally, we have a fragment of Psalm 22:16(17) in the Dead Sea Scrolls Nahal Hever (5/6Hev1b f8_9:12). Which is provided below.

Another picture can be found at the website for the Dead Sea Scrolls at Israel's Antiquities Authority. Though the quality is much more diminished there.

The Hebrew word has כארו (they dug), though an unusual spelling not found else where, instead of the word in the כארי (lion), this is evidence Christian did not tamper with the text, but that this may very well have been the original. The only difference between the two words, as can be seen in the fragment, is that the yod, is smaller than the vav, Kaaru has a "vav" and Kari has a "yod," so an error could have happened with either making the letter too short, or too long.

Concerning the spelling of כארו (to dig) it is spelled elsewhere in the Hebrew bible lacking the א Aleph כרו  in the middle of the word, as in:
כָּרוּ לְפָנַי שִׁיחָה --Psalm 57:6(7) (Masoretic Text)
They dug (karu) before me a pit.--Psalm 57:6(7)
כָּרוּ-לִי זֵדִים שִׁיחוֹת --Psalm 119:85 (Masoretic Text)
The proud have dug pits (karu) for me--Psalm 119:85
 כִּי-כָרוּ שׁוּחָה לְנַפְשִׁי --Jeremiah 18:20 (Masoretic Text)
For they have dug (karu) a pit for my soul.--Jeremiah 18:20
 כִּי-כָרוּ שׁוּחָה לְלָכְדֵנִי --Jeremiah 18:22 (Masoretic Text)
 For they have dug (karu) a pit to take me--Jeremiah 18:22
Now concerning the word for as-a-lion it appears 4 times in the Hebrew Bible
 כארי ידי ורגלי --Psalm 22:16 (Masoretic Text with vowels removed)
Like a lion, my hands and feet.--Psalm 22:16b (Masoretic translation)
 כָּרַע שָׁכַב כַּאֲרִי וּכְלָבִיא, מִי יְקִימֶנּוּ--Numbers 24:9 (Masoretic text)
He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a lioness; who shall rouse him up?--Numbers 24:9 
 שִׁוִּיתִי עַד-בֹּקֶר כָּאֲרִי, כֵּן יְשַׁבֵּר כָּל-עַצְמוֹתָי--Isaiah 38:13 (Masoretic text)
The more I make myself like unto a lion until morning, the more it breaketh all my bones;--Isaiah 38:13 
 קֶשֶׁר נְבִיאֶיהָ בְּתוֹכָהּ, כַּאֲרִי שׁוֹאֵג טֹרֵף טָרֶף--Ezekiel 22:25 (Masoretic text)
There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey;--Ezekiel 22:25  
 So, we can see that the word for "they have dug" does not appear to be spelled in the ordinary way, and certainly not a way used elsewhere in the Masoretic Hebrew text, yet the "like a lion" simile does not really make a whole lot of sense in Psalm 22:16 since it doesn't explicitly mention anything the lion does, just says "like a lion, my hands and feet." Some Jewish translations changed it to "like a lion AT my hands and feet" to try to make more sense of it.

 It is interesting how the Antimissionaries insist on an error, despite the fact the ancient Aramaic, Greek, Latin, and at least 1 Dead Sea Scroll contain dug/pierce. This is not the only instance where the Masoretic text is in the minority, a similar case is with Genesis 4:8, where the Masoretic text lacks what Cain said to Abel, all the other texts including some Jewish targums add "let us go into the field."

In the Masoretic text of the Psalms there are variant readings for some verses, some of which are far more explicit than Psalm 22:16. For instance, Psalm 100 contains a variant based on a homophone--"v'lo" which can mean either "and not" or "and his" depending on whether the O is spelled using a vav or aleph:
הוּא-עָשָׂנוּ, ולא  אֲנַחְנוּ--Psalm 100:3 (One Masoretic version "and not")
He made us, and not ourselves--Psalm 100:3 (Variant)
This reading is rejected by most Protestants but it is the traditional Christian reading and is used in the traditional Latin Vulgate. Now here is the alternate version preferred by Protestants:
הוּא-עָשָׂנוּ, וְלוֹ אֲנַחְנו--Psalm 100:3 (one Masoretic version "and his")
He made us, and we are his--Psalm 100:3 (Variant reading favored by Protestants)
So we see a small error crept into the manuscript tradition based on two letter that look nothing alike, but make the same sound, produce a completely different reading of the text. If an error so significant could have been made here, why not in Psalm 22:16(17), and the original reading be "they have dug", theoretically spelled correctly?

Finally, the Hebrew bible, even the Torah contains defective spellings of words FREQUENTLY, which rabbis have historically exploited for gematria purposes, or to interject some midrashic idea about WHY its spelled the way it is. It is possibility that the LXX, Peshitta, and DSS reading was based on some form of defective spelling that no longer exists, or perhaps the DSS just added an aleph. Who knows.
Video Part 1
Part 2:

Thursday, December 26, 2013

Pope Gregory and Deuterocanonicals

In Moral on the Book of Job, Pope Gregory the Great (whether he wrote this book before or during his papacy, I don't know) quotes Sirach several times. Protestants are fond of using the Maccabee reference that it is "not canonical," what he meant by that is debated, but we can look at him quote other books:

That the acuteness of wisdom is designated by the ‘sun,’ is said also in the way of comparison by Solomon; A wise man continueth as the sun, a fool changeth as the moon. [Ecclesiasticus/Sirach 27:11] What then is pointed out in this place by the rays of the sun, but the acuteness of wise men?--Volume III, Part 6, Book XXXIV, Paragraph 25

And the love of our neighbour is carried down into two precepts, since on the one hand it is said by a certain righteous man, Do that to no man which thou hatest. [Tobit 4:15]  And on the other ‘Truth’ saith by Himself, Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them. [Mat. 7:12]--Volume I, Part 2, Book X, Paragraph 8

In Sacred Writ ‘woman’ is taken either for the sex, or else for ‘frailty.’  For the ‘sex,’ as where it is written, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the Law [Gal. 4, 4].  But for frailty, as where it is said by the Wise Man, Better is the iniquity of a man than a woman doing well. [Ecclus./Sirach 42:14]  For ‘a man’ is the term for every strongminded and discreet person, but ‘a woman’ is understood of the weak or indiscreet mind.  And it often happens that even the discreet person suddenly falls into a fault, and that another weak and indiscreet man exhibits good practice.  But he that is weak and indiscreet is sometimes lifted up the more on the score of what he has done well, and falls the worse into sin; but the discreet person even from that which he sees that he has done amiss, takes occasion to recall himself with closer application to the rule of strictness, and advances the further in righteousness from the same act, whereby he seemed to have fallen from righteousness for a time.  In which respect it is rightly said, Better is the iniquity of a man than a woman doing well; in that sometimes the very fault of the strong becomes occasion of virtue, and the virtue of the weak occasion of sin. --Volume 2, Part 3, Book XI, Paragraph 65

Since according to the voice of Truth, Because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [Matt. 24, 2]  He, then, who hath not warmth of the heart in the love of God, and yet keepeth not the life, which he loves, assuredly he ‘fleeth like a shadow.’  Hence it is well written concerning him, that he hath followed a shadow. [Sirach 34:2]  Now it is well said, and never continueth in the same state.--Volume II Part III, Book XI, Paragraph 88

Outside of Moralia, we see him also quoting Tobit and Sirach:

Lest they should give something, however little to those on whom they ought to bestow nothing at all, let them hear what is written, Give to the good man, and receive not a sinner: do well to him that is lowly, and give not to the ungodly [Sirach 12:4]. And again, Set out your bread and wine on the burial of the just, but eat and drink not thereof with sinners [Tobit 4:17].--Pastoral Rule (Book III)

Friday, December 13, 2013

Psalm 22:2 notes

I am looking at Psalm 22:2(1) (MT)/Psalm 21:2 (Vulgate/LXX), this Psalm is significant since it is quoted by the Lord Jesus at the cross--at least the initial words "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me." The Catechism of the Catholic Church and St Augustine explain Christ is saying these words in the name of humans, not for His own sake.
Jesus did not experience reprobation as if he himself had sinned.(405) But in the redeeming love that always united him to the Father, he assumed us in the state of our waywardness of sin, to the point that he could say in our name from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"(406) Having thus established him in solidarity with us sinners, God "did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all", so that we might be "reconciled to God by the death of his Son".(407)--CCC 603
"...the first verse of which the Lord Himself uttered on the Cross: "My God, My God, look upon Me; why have You forsaken Me?" For "transferring us in a figure" [1 Corinthians 4:6] to what He was saying, and to His own Body (for we are also "His Body," and He is our "Head"), He uttered from the Cross not His own cry, but ours. For God never "forsook" Him: nor did He Himself ever depart from the Father; but it was in behalf of us that He spoke this: "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" For there follows, "Far from My health are the words of My offences:" and it shows in whose person He said this; for sin could not be found in Him.…"--St Augustine, Exposition on Psalm 44
Anyway, here is what the whole verse says:

אֵלִי אֵלִי, לָמָה עֲזַבְתָּנִי;    רָחוֹק מִישׁוּעָתִי, דִּבְרֵי שַׁאֲגָתִי
My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me, and art far from my help at the words of my cry?

The translation from the Hebrew text in modern Hebrew is

Eli, Eli, lamah azav'tani.
Éli, Eli, lamah azav'tani
or in Ashkenazi like
Eli, Eli, lamah azav'sani
Greek traditionally transliterates the tav without a daggesh with a theta.
Making azav'thani

The New Testament transliterations are somewhat different because they are transliterations of Hebrew and Aramaic into Greek, which we transliterated again into English. I will go off of Matthew 27:46 for now. The Byzantine Majority here does NOT agree exactly with the so called Textus Receptus, despite the insistence by KJV only Baptist it ALWAYS does. Nor is Alexandrian consistent with Westcott and Hort here, really, each major manuscript is slightly different, though not by a whole lot. All of them transliterate the word for "forsaken" the same except for Tischendorf which seems to throw in an extra eta just before the iota at the end. Here is the Greek transliteration in most texts σαβαχθανι. This does not match the Hebrew, which does not even start with a sound besides "a," σαβαχθανι which can be transliterated into English as savakthani (beta in modern Greek refers to a v sound, and the iota at the end is said like a long e as in meet). This seems to correspond to the Targum of Psalm 22:2  (1) which reads שבקתני which could come close to Matthew's.

In bold I highlighted the Hebrew word מִישׁוּעָתִי "from my help" or as it can also be read "from my salvation" since the Hebrew word there has ישׁוּעָ which contains one of the Hebrew spellings for Jesus "Y'shu'a". This spelling is found in later Hebrew as in Ezra/Nehemiah.

 For example, in Ezra 10:18 we read in part there was a priest named "Jeshua" in English translations:

............ מִבְּנֵי יֵשׁוּעַ בֶּן-יוֹצָדָק .........--Ezra 10:18
............from the sons of Yeshu'a son of Yotzadak.....--Ezra 10:18

This priest is named after Joshua son of Nun, the original form of the name first appears in the Torah in Exodus 17

 וַיֹּאמֶר מֹשֶׁה אֶל-יְהוֹשֻׁעַ .--Exodus 17:9
And Moses [Mosheh] said to Joshua [Y'hoshu'a]....--Exodus 17:9

The spelling of Ezra 10:18 Yeshu'a as a proper name only appears 30 times in the Hebrew bible, but only in 4 books: 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah.  Joshua son of Nun called Y'hoshu'a in Exodus 17:9 is called "Yeshu'a" in Nehemiah 8:17 as we see here:

... יֵשׁוּעַ בִּן-נוּן ...--Nehemiah 8:17

Yeshu'a ben Nun..--Nehemiah 8:17

Now since Jesus' name is based on Joshua the son of Nun's name (Hebrews 4:9) its reasonable to link the two names and the two different spellings of the name together.  Furthermore, the spelling of Psalm 22:2 of yshu'a is spelled the same as it is in 1&2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah since there Hebrew texts the were originally written in lacked diacritics--meaning no vowels.  The only letters seen would be yod, shin, vav, and ayin. The ayin having little to no sound in of its self (though the Vulgate suggests it may have made a slight g sound based on Genesis 18's town "Gomorrah".)

Anyway, continuing on with Psalm 22 we read that a significant textual variant--or at least a significant alternate translation. Just about every translation into English based on the Masoretic Hebrew text says "from the words of my cry." The Douay Rheims, which is a translation of the Latin Vulgate reads "words of my sins." Here are the comparisons of English translations:

 so far from my cries of anguish?--NIV
from the words of my groaning?--ESV
Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.--NASB

and from the words of my roaring?--KJV
 Far from my salvation are the words of my sins--DRB

Here is what the Vulgate reads:

Deus, Deus meus, respice in me: quare me dereliquisti? longe a salute mea verba delictorum meorum--Psalm 21:2 Vulgate (Vulgate uses LXX numbering)

Delictorum being from Delictum meaning " a fault, offence, trespass, crime, transgression, wrong, defect."     

Now the Douay Rheim's rendering and the Latin Vulgate are not alone in this reading, its also found in Greek Septuagint (LXX) Psalm 21:2

μου οἱ λόγοι τῶν παραπτωμάτων μου.--Psalm 21:2 LXX (LXX has a different chapter numbering than MT)

παραπτωμάτων means  false step, slip, blunder, which does not seem to be very different than "hamartia" the word for sin.

We also have the Peshitta text of Psalm 22:2 which also uses a word for sin, this is significant since the Peshitta is an ancient text written in Syriac/Aramaic which is a Semitic language very close to Hebrew. It reads:

ܐܠܗܝ ܐܠܗܝ ܠܡܢܐ ܫܒܩܬܢܝ܂ ܘܐܪܚܩܬ ܡܢ ܦܘܪܩܢܝ ܒܡ̈ܠܐ ܕܣ̈ܟܠܘܬܝ.--Psalm 22:2 Peshitta text
ܕܣ̈ܟܠܘܬܝ meaning "fall, sin."
While, the Masoretic text has "שַׁאֲגָתִי" sha'agati, which refers to a "roar," as seen in Job 4:10 "roaring of a lion."
I cannot conclude for certain why the Syriac Peshitta, Latin Vulgate, and Greek Septuagint read "sin," when the Hebrew Masoretic and Targum read "roar." The answer maybe, just as it is for Psalm 22:16 where there is a Hebrew variant reading "dug" where most have something about a lion (found at Nachal Hever).  The Haydock bible commentary states for this verse:
The Septuagint seem to have read shagathi, whereas the Hebrew places the g after the a, or they have substituted the cause for the effect; as sin was certainly the cause of Christ's affliction, and of his Father's not granting present relief. --Haydock
I did find in Hebrew words that are spelled SOMEWHAT similar to shagati, like in Psalm 19:13 (MT) it reads:

שְׁגִיאוֹת מִי-יָבִין-Psalm 19:13 MT
Who can discern his errors?--Psalm 19:13

The word errors in this verse is שְׁגִיאוֹת sh'gi'ot which seems to be 3rd person, plural, feminine, whereas Psalm 22:2 is 1st person. I could be wrong about this.  I do NOT know enough Hebrew to really figure this out.

Sunday, December 8, 2013

Papacy and the Council of Sardica

Disclaimer: The following is 100% NOT my own work. It is a reproduction of an article made by John Collorafi, on his now defunct website Ancient Papacy. The canons of Sardica can be found here.  
 The Council of Sardica
The Council of Sardica was part of the orthodox reaction to the Arian heresy, which denied that the Son of God was truly divine. Although Arianism was condemned at the Council of Nicea, the Arian intriguers persecuted orthodox bishops in the east, notably Saint Athanasius of Alexandria.

In 343, orthodox western bishops met the eastern bishops at Sardica, a city which was basically at the border between western and eastern Roman jurisdictions. Under the presidency of Hosius, bishop of Cordoba, the council restored orthodox bishops such as Athanasius and Paul of Constantinople.

The council of Sardica also laid down the following three canons or rules about church discipline, regarding the right of bishops to appeal to Rome:

Canon 3. Bishop Hosius said: “...if sentence has been pronounced against a bishop in some case, and he thinks that he has good reason for the case to be considered, let us, if it be agreeable to you, honor the memory of the holy apostle Peter: let letters be written to Julius, the bishop of Rome, by those who examined the case; if he judges that the case should be reconsidered, let it be reconsidered and let him appoint judges. If however he concludes that the case is not such that it ought to be reviewed, whatever he decrees will stand confirmed. Is this agreeable to everybody?” The council answered: “Yes.”

Canon 4. Bishop Gaudentius said: “Let this provision, if it be agreeable to you, be added to this very holy decision which you have made: when a bishop has been deposed by judgment of the bishops in neighboring areas, and has proclaimed that his case must be dealt with in the city of Rome, after the appeal of [the bishop] who apparently has been deposed, in no event may another bishop be ordained to replace him in his see unless the case has been determined by the judgment of the bishop of Rome.”

Canon 5. Bishop Hosius said: “But it has been agreed that if a bishop has been accused, and the bishops of that region have met, passed judgment and deposed him from his rank, and he takes refuge with the most blessed bishop of the Roman Church, and asked that the case be heard: if [the bishop of Rome] has agreed that he be heard, and considers it just that the case be reopened, let him deign to write to the bishops in the neighboring province, and the one next to it, that they examine the whole matter diligently, and define in reliance upon the truth. If, however, [the bishop] who asks that his case be heard again by his own petition has moved the bishop of Rome to send a priest with a special mission, it shall be in the bishop’s power to say what he wishes or as seems fit to him. If he determines to send [legates] to pass judgment together with the bishops, as having the authority of the one who sent them, it will be within his discretion. If however he considers the bishops sufficient to make the final decision on the case, he shall do what in his most wise counsel he judges best.” [Mansi 3: 23-5]

The canons of Sardica were included in leading Latin and Greek collections of canon law. For example, Greek canons of Sardica were included in a collection compiled by Patriarch John III Scholasticus [565-577] of Constantinople, called Synagoga L Titulorum.

The canons of Sardica also appear in an ancient Latin collection known as the Prisca, [PL 56: 775-7], the authentic Spanish collection of canons [PL 84: 115 sq.] and the collection of Dionysius Exiguus, a monk from Scythia, which was a province in the lower Danube. [PL 67: 949 sq]

The council also wrote a letter to Pope Julius [337-352] of Rome, which says:

... For this will seem best and most exceedingly fitting if the priests of the Lord, from each of the different provinces, refer to the head, that is, the see of Peter the apostle... [Mansi 3: 40]

The authenticity of these striking words has been called into question, but the words do appear in the Historical Fragments of Hilary, bishop of Poitiers [PL 10: 639].

The acts of the Council of Sardica were signed by bishops of numerous western and eastern regions or provinces, such as Africa, Egypt, Phrygia, Isauria, Ancyra, Gaza, Thrace, Larissa, Thessalonica, Nicopolis, Dardania, Macedonia, Achaia, Thessalia, Cyprus, Palestine, Arabia, Asia, Dacia, Pannonia, etc. [Athanasius, Apol. 37-50. PG 25: 311 sq. Cf. Mansi 3: 38-9]

Dacia corresponds roughly to Romania, while Pannonia corresponds more or less to Hungary. Dardania and Macedonia are in the Balkans. Thessaly and Achaia were provinces of Greece.

Canons of the council of Sardica, including the canons about appeals to Rome, were even included in the Armenian book of canons published at Yerevan, Armenia in 1971, during the Soviet era. [Kanonagirk Hayoc’, Yerevan 1971, 1: 254-257]

Thus the council of Sardica had the widest acceptance in east and west.

Copyright 2003, John Collorafi

Original translations by John Collorafi
My (Berhane Selassie) video on this article:


Thursday, November 21, 2013

Mormonism and the 'prophet' Joseph Smith's sons

I was reading through the history of Mormonism, and after the founder's death, Joseph Smith Jr. he left behind 5 children (the rest of Smith's children died in childbirth or soon after) in Nauvoo, Illinois, none of which were followers of Brigham Young and established a rival "church" to the Utah Mormon "church":

1 adopted daughter--Julia Murdock Smith who was 13 years old when her adopted father Joseph Smith Jr ("the prophet") died, making her the oldest. As a result of one of her marriages, she converted to Catholicism, whether she stayed Catholic-- I don't know.
3 sons:

Joseph Smith III, who was 11 when his father died. He eventually was his father's successor in the rival Mormon sect and an opponent of polygamy. He lead the Reorganized LDS church, now called the "Community of Christ." 
Alexander Hale Smith, who was about 6 years old when his father died. He was a leader with his older brother Joseph III in the RLDS.
David Hyrum Smith, who was about 5 months old when his father died. He was a missionary for the RLDS, and tried to even get the LDS in Utah to convert to the RLDS.
Doesn't it seem strange that none of Smith's children (that we know of) even cared to follow the rest of the Mormons into Utah? I suppose a LDS missionary will blame the children's mother.  What is interesting, is a similar phenomenon occurred with Islam when the "prophet" Muhammad died, there was a schism over who was to lead.

Friday, November 8, 2013

Abraham's Bosom in the Talmud

Today, I was asked by a Jewish friend where the term "Bosom of Abraham" is from that Jesus uses in Luke 16 in the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus, since she did not believe it to be Jewish at all.

When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham.--Luke 16:22
It is possible it was a term Jesus coined, but it's more likely that it was an already used term. Anyway, the term is used in Jewish literature, according to Jewish Encyclopedia:
In Ḳid. 72b, Adda bar Ahaba, a rabbi of the third century, is said to be "sitting in the bosom of Abraham," which means that he has entered paradise. With this should be compared the statement of R. Levi (Gen. R. xlviii.): "In the world to come Abraham sits at the gate of Gehenna, permitting none to enter who bears the seal of the covenant"--Jewish Encyclopedia, 1906, Abraham's Bosom
Looking up this reference of Kid 72b, it's found at the very end of the Kiddushin 72b (Gemera) (קידושין  עב,ב גמרא) (this is a tractate of the Babylonian Talmud) it reads:
דאגמא איכא בבבל אדא בר אהבה יש בה  היום יושב בחיקו של אברהם
"There is a Fort Agama in Babylon wherein dwells Adda b. Ahabah: today he sits in Abraham's lap;"--Kiddushin 72b (Gemera)
The word יושב  means to "sit" or "dwell," and it frequently used in the Hebrew bible for people settling down or living in an area (as well as just sitting). The phrase that can be translated as "bosom/chest of Abraham" is בחיקו של אברהם , the word של meaning "his", בחיקו (b'heyko) means "in bosom/lap," and with אברהם meaning Abraham. 

The word בחיקו 'in the bosom' is used the Hebrew bible twice:
Proverbs 6:27--הֲיַחְתֶּה אִישׁ אֵשׁ בְּחֵיקוֹ;    וּבְגָדָיו, לֹא תִשָּׂרַפְנָה 
Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?--Proverbs 6:27
Exodus 4:6--וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה לוֹ עוֹד, הָבֵא-נָא יָדְךָ בְּחֵיקֶךָ, וַיָּבֵא יָדוֹ, בְּחֵיקוֹ; וַיּוֹצִאָהּ, וְהִנֵּה יָדוֹ מְצֹרַעַת כַּשָּׁלֶג 
And the LORD said furthermore unto him: 'Put now thy hand into thy bosom.' And he put his hand into his bosom; and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous, as white as snow.--Exodus 4:6
 The word חיקו is found around 34 times in the Hebrew bible, but I use these specific examples to demonstrate it can mean "chest" or "bosom", specifically (Moses did not put his hand in his lap but just to his chest!). I generally do not use the term "bosom" since its weird in modern speech to say a man has a bosom.


The phrase "bosom of Abraham" is used in Jewish literature (at least this one time) and is not unique to the New Testament.

Tuesday, November 5, 2013

Acacian Schism and Papal Primacy early Church

Disclaimer: The following is 100% NOT my own work. It is a reproduction of an article made by John Collorafi, on his now defunct website Ancient Papacy. 
The Acacian Schism (484-519)and Formula of Pope Hormisdas

In the late fifth century, Emperor Zeno, with the complicity of the bishop of Constantinople, Acacius [471-489] tried to impose on the Byzantine east an ambiguous formula called the Henoticon or decree of union.

Acacius quickly signed the Henoticon after it was promulgated in 482, and so did the notorious heretic Peter Mongus, who was installed as the imperially sponsored archbishop of Alexandria. Acacius tried to justify himself by claiming that he was merely following imperial orders in the matter.

Before long a new pope, Saint Felix III [483-492] was elected at Rome, and he sent legates to Constantinople to try to persuade the emperor to remove the heretic Mongus from Alexandria. The pope also wanted Acacius, whose behavior was becoming increasingly suspicious, to appear before a Roman council. The pope had also received reports from several bishops of the east, to say nothing of the monks and other faithful, complaining about the actions of Acacius.

When the papal legates reached Constantinople, they were thrown into prison and browbeaten into recognizing the heretic Mongus. The pope reacted in July 484 by holding a council at Rome which solemnly excommunicated Acacius.

The empire hardened its attitude and tried to coerce the bishops of the east to sign the Henoticon, and during this period Acacius died in 489, anathematized by Rome. His successor, Fravitas [489-490], made attempts to contact both the pope and Peter Mongus of Alexandria.

Fravitas died in 490 and his successor as bishop of Constantinople, Euphemius [490-496] took some objectively positive steps. Euphemius accepted the Council of Chalcedon, renewed the commemoration of the pope in the liturgy, and broke communion with the heretic Peter Mongus.

However, Rome had one more requirement before the schism could be healed: at Constantinople, the names of Acacius [and Fravitas], who had died in schism, needed to be removed from the diptychs or liturgical commemorations. Because Euphemius was unwilling to take this final step, the schism continued.

A similar situation existed under the next patriarch of Constantinople, Macedonius II [496-511]. Macedonius accepted the council of Chalcedon and attempted to send synodical letters to Rome—an attempt to reestablish communion—but the new emperor, Anastasius [491-518] intervened, sabotaging even the attempt to be reconciled with Rome.

Meanwhile, a new pope, Saint Symmachus [498-514], received an appeal entitled, “the eastern church to Symmachus, bishop of Rome.” The appeal describes in heart-breaking terms the persecution from which the east was suffering, and asked Symmachus to use his power of binding and loosing to mitigate the suffering in the east. [Mansi 8: 221 sq.]

Under the successor of Symmachus, Pope Hormisdas [514-523], the emperor began sending out feelers about an ecumenical council at Heraclea in Thrace. While nothing came of the council, the pope did compose a solemn profession of faith known as the formula of Pope Hormisdas.

When a new emperor, Justin [518-527], was proclaimed at Constantinople, crowds of the faithful literally demanded the restoration of orthodoxy—the faith of Chalcedon—and also the restoration of union with Rome. Pope Hormisdas sent legates into the east with the formula of faith. Eastern bishops and clergy were to be reconciled with Rome by signing the formula. The schism finally ended in 519 when Patriarch John II [518-520] the Cappadocian signed Rome’s formula, along with a great number of bishops, priests and archimandrites.

The first salvation is to keep the rule of the true faith, and to deviate in no way from the tradition of the fathers. And because the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ cannot be set aside, which says: “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,” these things which have been said are proven by the course of events, for in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been preserved unblemished… Not wanting to fall away from this faith, and following the constitutions of the fathers in every respect, we anathematize all heresies, especially the heretic Nestorius, formerly bishop of the city of Constantinople, who was condemned at the Council of Ephesus by Celestine, pope of the city of Rome, and by the holy Cyril, bishop of Alexandria. Along with him we anathematize Eutyches and Dioscorus of Alexandria, who were condemned in the holy council of Chalcedon, which we follow and embrace. We anathematize with them Timothy the parricide [the Cat], surnamed Elurus, and his disciple and follower in all things, Peter [Mongus] of Alexandria. In like manner we condemn and anathematize Acacius, who was once bishop of the city of Constantinople, their accomplice and follower, and those who persevered in their communion, for anyone who embraces the communion of individuals receives a similar judgment at their condemnation. We also condemn Peter of Antioch [the Fuller], along with his followers... Wherefore, as we have already said, following in all matters the Apostolic See and preaching all its constitutions, I hope that I may merit to be in one communion with you, which the Apostolic See proclaims, in which is the integral and true solidity of the Christian religion. I also promise that during the celebration of the sacred mysteries, I will not recite the names of those who were separated from the communion of the Catholic Church, that is, who do not agree in every respect with the Apostolic See. This profession I have signed with my own hand, and offered it to you, Hormisdas, holy and venerable pope of the city of Rome. [CSEL 35: 520-22]

The formula of Pope Hormisdas is found in a collection of papal documents known as the Collectio Avellana, compiled about 550.

We do not know exactly how many bishops signed this formula, but a deacon of Rome, Rusticus, writing about 550, said that under Emperor Justin there were “perhaps twenty-five hundred priests” who signed libelli [the formula of faith] after the schism of Peter [Mongus] of Alexandria, and Acacius. [PL 67, 1251-2]

Evidently not all clerics who signed the formula were bishops. Rusticus does not say how many of the signers were bishops, and how many were from the lower clergy.

Copyright 2003, John Collorafi

Original translations by John Collorafi

Pope Silvester and Nicea I

Disclaimer: The following is 100% NOT my own work. It is a reproduction of an article made by John Collorafi, on his now defunct website Ancient Papacy. 

Pope St. Silvester (314-335)

Pope Saint Silvester [314-335] led the church through a critical period of her existence. During his lifetime Constantine, the first emperor who openly fought under the standard of the cross, changed the character of the Roman empire forever.

During the era of Pope Silvester, the Arian heresy, which denied that the Son of God was truly divine, first appeared. Arianism was condemned at the Council of Nicea, the first ecumenical council [325].

Pope Silvester is venerated as a saint not only in the Catholic Church, but also in the Greek Church. The Menaion, or monthly liturgy of the Greek Church, celebrates his feast on January 2. The liturgical prayers, which speak of his “unerring teachings,” also include these words:

God-bearing Father Silvester, you appeared as a pillar of fire leading the sacred college in a sacred manner, and as an overshadowing cloud, delivering the faithful from the Egyptian [Arian] error and on every occasion leading them with unerring teachings to divine land... Enriched with the chair of the coryphaeus of the apostles... you appeared as the coryphaeus, initiating the sacred college into divine things, and you graced the... throne of the coryphaeus of the disciples... [Menaion Ianouariou, Athens 1979: 17, 22, 24]

Coryphaeus is a Greek work that means the leader. Its use here means that Pope Silvester was the successor of Saint Peter-- the coryphaeus [chief or leader] of the apostles.

The Coptic Church also has a commemoration of “Silvester, pope of Rome,” on January 2. The commemoration is found in the Synaxarion or book of saints of the Coptic Church. [PO 11: 552]

The Armenian Synaxarion or Book of Saints is known as the Yaysmavurk in Armenian. The Armenian book of saints also commemorates St. Silvester on January 2. The Armenian book of saints praises Saint Silvester’s holiness and even commemorates certain orders which he inscribed into canon law. The Yaysmavurk also says that the Council of Nicea met in accordance with the faith professed by Saint Silvester.

Copyright 2003, John Collorafi

Original translations by John Collorafi

Friday, October 4, 2013

Sick Mind of Matt Slick of

Debating with Matt Slick again about Mary, by the way-- he still has not addressed my video against him. He got mad when I showed the semantic domain of the word "eos o" (see the article below on eos o) that is-- "until" in Matthew 1:25, he said "that's typical of cults" then he insisted "there it DOES mean Mary had sex in Matthew 1" despite there being no evidence for that! I insisted it was his PERSONAL interpretation and he insisted, I was wrong, giving no reason besides he says I am. Then Matt Slick said on microphone:
  "Listen! Mary had sex and she liked! She had an orgasm."
At which point I left the chatroom which he was admining in. This occurred at night October 3, 2013 in the anti-Catholic room whose title is roughly "is there salvation in Roman Catholicism" owned by a man named Fitzy.

"Do not go beyond what is written"

The following is St John Chrysostom's commentary to 1 Corinthians 4:6, notice how this native Greek speaking Christian, that preached just 200 years after the time the New Testament was written did not even think 1 Corinthians 4:6 taught "sola scriptura."
This, if you mark it, is the reason why he says here, "These things have I transferred in a figure unto myself for your sakes, that in us you may learn not to be wise above what is written," signifying that if he had applied his argument in their persons, they would not have learned all that they needed to learn, nor would have admitted the correction, being vexed at what was said. But as it was, revering Paul, they bore the rebuke well. 
But what is the meaning of, "not to be wise above what is written?" It is written, [Matthew 7:3] "Why do you behold the mote that is in your brothers's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in your own eye?" and "Judge not, that you be not judged." For if we are one and are mutually bound together, it behooves us not to rise up against one another. For "he that humbles himself shall be exalted," says he. And [Matthew 20:26-27; Mark 10:43; not verbatim] "He that will be first of all, let him be the servant of all." These are the things which "are written." 
"That no one of you be puffed up for one against another." Again, having dismissed the teachers, he rebukes the disciples. For it was they who caused the former to be elated.--St John Chrysostom, Homily 12 on First Corinthians, Patriarch of Constantinople, (lived AD 347–407) 
St John Chrysostom's commentary makes sense considering the whole surrounding context of the phrase "do not go beyond what is written" is pride and judgment!

Tuesday, September 24, 2013

Judaism, Purgatory, Karaites

Not everything has to be in the bible, the rabbis were given authority over matters and even Jesus recognized this in Matt 23, despite calling them hypocrites. Some of the things called "traditions of men" were modern innovations that were not even approved of by rabbis, like the korban abuse. Deuteronomy 17:11 states unclear matters/matters not in the torah are to be settled by JUDGES, this is the Jewish basis for rabbinical authority, as far as the Karaites go--They were probably a post 2nd temple movement, there's no reference to them in the Hebrew bible or the Christian at all. The the way the New testament DOES accept some rabbinical rulings/"traditions" of law like in Acts 15 where eating strangled animals is forbidden to gentiles--this is never explicitly written in the Torah.

The Christian view of purgatory is in 1 cor 3:15 "shall be saved as though by fire" which is the chief verse used, others can include MAtthew 12:32 "shall not be forgiven in this age or in the age to come", Matt 5:26 "until the last farthing" and 2 Thess 1 where Onesiphorous, seems to be dead, and is prayed for by Paul.

Sunday, September 22, 2013

Is Muhammad's name used in Songs of Solomon?

The following is Muslims claim (in blue) and my response (in black) A Muslim's claim: Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h)mentioned by name in old testament in the song of solomon ch 5 v 16"hikko mamittakim we kullo muhammadim zehdoodeh wa zehraee bayna jerusalem"his mouth is most sweet yea he is altogether lovely this is my beloved and this is my friend,o daughters of jerusalem" in hebrew lang "im"is added for respect similarly im is added after the name of prophet muhammad pbuh to make it english translation they have even translated the name of prophet muhammad pbuh as"altogether lovely"but in old testament name is present.thank u and have a look plz

My response:
The Holy Scripture reads:

 חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם
iko, mam'tamkim, v'challo, maamadim. Zeh dodi v'zeh rei, b'not y'rushalam. 

Notice it does not say "muhammad" at all but mahamadim. Mahamadim means most desired. The מַ mem at the beginning of the word has a patach (the horizontal line) which is the "a" sound, not a "u" sound, the u sound is made by a kibbuts (3 diagonal dots) or the Shuruk (a vav with a dot).

Furthermore, the "m" or ם "mem" in the middle of the word is only a SINGLE 'm' sound, if it were doubled like in the name muhammed it would have a mappiq mark (a dot) in the mem like מָּ!

Furthermore, the -im suffix generally refers to the plural! Though some words just have the -im suffix anyway. The plural is used in the same verse when it says hiko, mam'takim--"His mouth is MOST SWEET) see the -im there refers to "most".

What in this chapter would EVER make you think this fits Muhammed at all, considering its a woman talking to other women (daughters of Jerusalem, a city never mentioned by name in the Quran) about her husband?

Finally, the word is used 11 times elsewhere in the Hebrew bible (using the KJV for convenience) in different forms, in red will be the words translation, also notice the tone of every passage--none of them are positive, this is why Muslim apologists probably only use Songs 5:16:
Yet I will send my servants unto thee to morrow about this time, and they shall search thine house, and the houses of thy servants; and it shall be, [that] whatsoever is pleasant [ma'mad מַחְמַד] in thine eyes, they shall put [it] in their hand, and take [it] away.--1 Kings 20:6
 כִּי אִם-כָּעֵת מָחָר, אֶשְׁלַח אֶת-עֲבָדַי אֵלֶיךָ, וְחִפְּשׂוּ אֶת-בֵּיתְךָ, וְאֵת בָּתֵּי עֲבָדֶיךָ; וְהָיָה כָּל-מַחְמַד עֵינֶיךָ, יָשִׂימוּ בְיָדָם וְלָקָחוּ  --first Kings 20:6 Masoretic Text 

And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly [ מַחֲמַדֶּיהָ   mamaddeyha] vessels thereof.--2 Chronicles 36:19
וַיִּשְׂרְפוּ, אֶת-בֵּית הָאֱלֹהִים, וַיְנַתְּצוּ, אֵת חוֹמַת יְרוּשָׁלִָם; וְכָל-אַרְמְנוֹתֶיהָ שָׂרְפוּ בָאֵשׁ, וְכָל-כְּלֵי מַחֲמַדֶּיהָ לְהַשְׁחִית  -- second Chronicles 36:19
Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things [mamaddeynu, מַחֲמַדֵּינוּ ] are laid waste.--Isaiah 64:11(10)
בֵּית קָדְשֵׁנוּ וְתִפְאַרְתֵּנוּ, אֲשֶׁר הִלְלוּךָ אֲבֹתֵינוּ--הָיָה, לִשְׂרֵפַת אֵשׁ; וְכָל-מַחֲמַדֵּינוּ, הָיָה לְחָרְבָּה--Isaiah 64:11
The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her pleasant things [מַחֲמַדֶּיהָ mamaddeha]: for she hath seen [that] the heathen entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command [that] they should not enter into thy congregation.--Lamentations 1:10
יָדוֹ פָּרַשׂ צָר, עַל כָּל-מַחֲמַדֶּיהָ:  כִּי-רָאֲתָה גוֹיִם, בָּאוּ מִקְדָּשָׁהּ--אֲשֶׁר צִוִּיתָה, לֹא-יָבֹאוּ בַקָּהָל לָךְ--Lamentation 1:10
He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all [that were] pleasant [מַחֲמַדֵּי maḥamaddey] to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire.--Lamentations 2:4
דָּרַךְ קַשְׁתּוֹ כְּאוֹיֵב, נִצָּב יְמִינוֹ כְּצָר, וַיַּהֲרֹג, כֹּל מַחֲמַדֵּי-עָיִן; בְּאֹהֶל, בַּת-צִיּוֹן, שָׁפַךְ כָּאֵשׁ, חֲמָתוֹ--Lamentations 2:4
Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the desire [מַחְמַד maḥ'mad] of thine eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down.--Ezekiel 24:16
בֶּן-אָדָם, הִנְנִי לֹקֵחַ מִמְּךָ אֶת-מַחְמַד עֵינֶיךָ בְּמַגֵּפָה; וְלֹא תִסְפֹּד וְלֹא תִבְכֶּה, וְלוֹא תָבוֹא דִּמְעָתֶךָ--Ezekiel 24:16
Speak unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellency of your strength, the desire [מַחְמַד maḥ'mad] of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword.--Ezekiel 24:21
 אֱמֹר לְבֵית יִשְׂרָאֵל, כֹּה-אָמַר אֲדֹנָי יְהוִה, הִנְנִי מְחַלֵּל אֶת-מִקְדָּשִׁי גְּאוֹן עֻזְּכֶם, מַחְמַד עֵינֵיכֶם וּמַחְמַל נַפְשְׁכֶם; וּבְנֵיכֶם וּבְנוֹתֵיכֶם אֲשֶׁר עֲזַבְתֶּם, בַּחֶרֶב יִפֹּלוּ--Ezekiel 24:21
Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be] in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the desire [מַחְמַד maḥ'mad] of their eyes, and that whereupon they set their minds, their sons and their daughters,--Ezekiel 24:25
וְאַתָּה בֶן-אָדָם--הֲלוֹא בְּיוֹם קַחְתִּי מֵהֶם אֶת-מָעוּזָּם, מְשׂוֹשׂ תִּפְאַרְתָּם:  אֶת-מַחְמַד עֵינֵיהֶם וְאֶת-מַשָּׂא נַפְשָׁם, בְּנֵיהֶם וּבְנוֹתֵיהֶם--Ezekiel 24:25
For, lo, they are gone because of destruction: Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them: the pleasant [מַחְמַד maḥ'mad] [places] for their silver, nettles shall possess them: thorns [shall be] in their tabernacles.--Hosea 9:6
כִּי-הִנֵּה הָלְכוּ מִשֹּׁד, מִצְרַיִם תְּקַבְּצֵם מֹף תְּקַבְּרֵם; מַחְמַד לְכַסְפָּם, קִמּוֹשׂ יִירָשֵׁם, חוֹחַ, בְּאָהֳלֵיהֶם --Hosea 9:6
Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay [even] the beloved [maḥmaddey מַחֲמַדֵּי] [fruit] of their womb. --Hosea 9:16
הֻכָּה אֶפְרַיִם--שָׁרְשָׁם יָבֵשׁ, פְּרִי בלי- (בַל-) יַעֲשׂוּן; גַּם כִּי יֵלֵדוּן, וְהֵמַתִּי מַחֲמַדֵּי בִטְנָם--Hosea 9:16 
 Forasmuch as ye have taken My silver and My gold, and have carried into your temples My goodly [umaḥmadday וּמַחֲמַדַּי] treasures; Joel 3:5/4:5
אֲשֶׁר-כַּסְפִּי וּזְהָבִי, לְקַחְתֶּם; וּמַחֲמַדַּי, הַטֹּבִים, הֲבֵאתֶם, לְהֵיכְלֵיכֶם --Joel 3:5/4:5
No wonder why only Songs of Solomon 5:16 was chosen!

Sunday, September 15, 2013

Pope letter to an atheist The ACTUAL letter to the atheist, with what the Pope REALLY said about God's forgiveness
As for the three questions you asked me in the article of August 7th. It would seem to me that in the first two, what you are most interested in is understanding the Church's attitude towards those who do not share faith in Jesus. First of all, you ask if the God of the Christians forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith. Given that - and this is fundamental - God's mercy has no limits *****IF***** HE WHO ASKS FOR MERCY DOES SO IN CONTRITION and with a sincere heart, the issue for those who do not believe in God is in obeying their own conscience. In fact, listening and obeying it, means deciding about what is perceived to be good or to be evil. The goodness or the wickedness of our behavior depends on this decision.
He's hardly said anything remotely what the newspapers are claiming. In fact his qualifier is ignored by pretty much everyone. If anything the pope is accusing Atheists of NOT obeying their conscience. Some how people get "atheists go to heaven" from the pope saying atheists need to ask God for forgiveness and follow their conscience. Saying their is a condition for atheists getting forgiven is completely the opposite of the media spin. How can an atheist receive forgiveness of sins if the do not believe in sin, God's mercy since they do not even believe in God, obviously the Pope is saying the atheists must repent of their unbelief or die unforgiven.

Saturday, September 14, 2013

Landmark Baptists

A person I've talked to for years finally made known that he is a Landmark Baptist, which explains his hatred of infant baptism, Calvinism, Catholicism, the Reformation and being called a Protestant. Part of his "proof" of the Landmark Baptists ancient existence is piggy backing on the Waldensian movement, something Ellen G White did also. His source was a Landmark Baptist writer named David Cloud. Since his books are hard to find, I found his webpage, where in talks in part about the Waldensians and his "scholarly" research around Europe. Some of the hilarity of it is that 1)he could not communicate with the people he talked to that were Waldensians since he did not speak French or Italian, 2)he claims that the Waldensians have screwed up their own church history by claiming to be started by Peter Waldo, instead of going back to the times of the Apostles. Since the later claim was is incompatible with this absurd Baptist theological movement, it MUST be false (in his mind.)

Going back to the original Landmark Baptist I mention, he claims the Catholic Church "created" a rival Waldensian church. Whether he meant this in terms of fabricated in writing, or literally created a new church, does not really seem relevant since his own source David Cloud does not even believe this, since he goes to Waldensian communities believing them to be actual Waldensians, though they've become very liberal.

Furthermore, this person claimed the people of Piedmont had the Syriac bible in the middle ages, a claim for which evidence is lacking, to which he would probably say "because Catholics and Protestants destroyed it" to which I would say "then how can you claim it exist if there is no evidence at all?" (BTW, there were some Medieval books in Syriac and Hebrew in the Middle Ages--around the 10th, 11th, 12th century of parts of the New Testament, but they were done so by people of Jewish origin, either as a polemic against Christianity, or because they converted to Christianity). This claim of a Syriac Bible sounds similar to Joseph Smith's "golden plates" which do not exist, and was only "seen" by his friends. For the sake of argument I said, ok let's say the people of Piedmont did have the Syriac Bible, could the people of this region of Northwest Italy-France read it at all? Knowing the answer was almost certainly not, he responded they would memorize the Bible-- massive sections of it. This answer was hardly even related to the my question. Let's say they did memorize it, did they have translations of the Syriac? If so, in what language, and who made, when was it made, where is the manuscript? The claim about memorizing the Bible is absurd, its too big to be memorized, the only people capable of such a feat have a photographic memory which is very rare, and would not be expected of many people. It's also interesting the Jews tell similar tall tales of Bible memorization abilities by their sages. In any case, if the Bible's preservation was based on people memorizing it, then there is no hope since it would be relying on something worse than pen and paper, but people's recollection which is no where near as permanent as paper.

The Landmark Baptist movement makes 10000 of claim with little to no evidence, other than OTHER Landmark "scholars"--which themselves use little to no evidence, and blame this lack of evidence of their enemies--a common tactic in religious circles and conspiracy theorists in general.

Monday, September 2, 2013

St John Chrysostom on Matthew 1:25

St John Chrysostom, the (Byzantine) Patriarch of Constantinople, created his homilies in the mid-to-late 4th century--only about 200 years after the time the Gospel according to Matthew was penned.  St John Chrysostom, like St Matthew, both were fluent in Greek. St John Chrysostom did not believe the usage of the word "until"--εως ου in Matthew 1:25 was proof that Mary and Joseph had sex. St John uses several example of εως being used where an action does not cease but continues after the εως, in a few  of his examples both εως and ου are used.

Here is St John Chrysostom's Homily V on the gospel of Matthew 1:25, commenting on εως ου:

"And when he had taken her, he knew her not, till she had brought forth her first-born Son.' He hath here used the word till,' not that thou shouldest suspect that afterwards he did know her, but to inform thee that before the birth the Virgin was wholly untouched by man. But why then, it may be said, hath he used the word, till'? Because it is usual in Scripture often to do this, and to use this expression without reference to limited times. For so with respect to the ark likewise, it is said, The raven returned not till the earth was dried up.' And yet it did not return even after that time. And when discoursing also of God, the Scripture saith, From age until age Thou art,' not as fixing limits in this case. And again when it is preaching the Gospel beforehand, and saying, In his days shall righteousness flourish, and abundance of peace, till the moon be taken away,' it doth not set a limit to this fair part of creation. So then here likewise, it uses the word "till," to make certain what was before the birth, but as to what follows, it leaves thee to make the inference. Thus, what it was necessary for thee to learn of Him, this He Himself hath said; that the Virgin was untouched by man until the birth; but that which both was seen to be a consequence of the former statement, and was acknowledged, this in its turn he leaves for thee to perceive; namely, that not even after this, she having so become a mother, and having been counted worthy of a new sort of travail, and a child-bearing so strange, could that righteous man ever have endured to know her. For if he had known her, and had kept her in the place of a wife, how is it that our Lord commits her, as unprotected, and having no one, to His disciple, and commands him to take her to his own home? How then, one may say, are James and the others called His brethren? In the same kind of way as Joseph himself was supposed to be husband of Mary. For many were the veils provided, that the birth, being such as it was, might be for a time screened. Wherefore even John so called them, saying, For neither did His brethren believe in Him.' "--John Chrysostom, Gospel of Matthew,V:5 (A.D. 370),in NPNF1,X:33 for Greek text go here
Let's look at the proof texts St John Chrysostom uses:
The raven returned not till the earth was dried up.'--Genesis 8:7
His usage of this verse seems to be a paraphrase, or based on a version of the LXX that I do not have access to. This quotation does use εως ου, the LXX version I have only have εως, in any case how St John uses it in a sentence shows its possible to use.

This other text is Psalm 89:2 in the LXX (which is Psalm 90:2 elsewhere), it reads:
From age until [ἕως] age Thou art--Psalm 89:2 LXX 
ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ--Psalm 89:2 LXX
Unlike, the first text from Genesis 8:7, this one is an exact quote. The Psalm does not use ἕως ου, but simply ἕως, showing St John felt demonstrating ἕως by itself was sufficient to show the meaning.

His third text is:
In his days shall righteousness flourish, and abundance of peace, till [ἕως οὗ] the moon be taken away—Psalm 71:7 LXX (Psalm 72 in the most bibles)

 ἀνατελεῖ ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις αὐτοῦ δικαιοσύνη καὶ πλῆθος εἰρήνης ἕως οὗ ἀνταναιρεθῇ ἡ σελήνη --Psalm 71:7 LXX
This text is also a verbatim quote of the Septuagint. However, unlike the last two quotes, this one does contains the phrase ἕως οὗ.  Obviously, the Psalmist did not intend to say that righteous and peace will cease once the moons goes away!

Saturday, August 31, 2013

Heos Hou appearances (until)

Based on the debate of Matthew 1:25 and as to whether or not it teaches Mary and Joseph had sex after the birth of Christ, I compiled a list of times the Greek phrase εως ου occurs in the LXX and Greek New Testament. I still have not finished the LXX part of it, but I am pretty sure I did get all the NT(unless I missed a few variants).  The phrase εως ου appears in the translations as "until" or "til" or otherwise, it will be surrounded by ** (typically translated as "before" or "while"). The translations will be from the NAB, unless its stated as the KJV, the other translation used is the NET for all the translations of the LXX. From this the reader can decide for himself if the usage of "εως ου " is actually proof that Joseph and Mary had sex after the birth of the Lord, I think the evidence demonstrates you cannot prove it from the phrase. 

He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.--Matthew 1:25

καὶ οὐκ ἐγίνωσκεν αὐτὴν ἕως οὗ ἔτεκεν υἱόν· καὶ ἐκάλεσεν τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν.--Matthew 1:25

When day came, the Jews made a plot and bound themselves by oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul.--Acts 23:12

Γενομένης δὲ ἡμέρας ποιήσαντες συστροφὴν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι ἀνεθεμάτισαν ἑαυτοὺς λέγοντες μήτε φαγεῖν μήτε πιεῖν ἕως οὗ ἀποκτείνωσιν τὸν Παῦλον.--Acts 23:12

As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, "Do not tell the vision to anyone until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."--Matthew 17:9

Καὶ καταβαινόντων αὐτῶν ἐκ τοῦ ὄρους ἐνετείλατο αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς λέγων· Μηδενὶ εἴπητε τὸ ὅραμα ἕως οὗ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐγερθῇ. --Matthew 17:9

for I tell you (that) from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."--Luke 22:18

λέγω γὰρ ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ πίω ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν ἀπὸ τοῦ γενήματος τῆς ἀμπέλου ἕως οὗ ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἔλθῃ.--Luke 22:18

But he refused. Instead, he had him put in prison until he paid back the debt.--Matthew 18:30, found in Byzantine majority

ο δε ουκ ηθελεν αλλα αλλ απελθων εβαλεν αυτον εις φυλακην εως ου αποδω το οφειλομενον--Matthew 18:30 (Byzantine majority and TRs)

Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt--Matthew 18:34

και οργισθεις ο κυριος αυτου παρεδωκεν αυτον τοις βασανισταις εως [ου] αποδω παν το οφειλομενον αὐτῷ--Matthew 18:34

It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed (in) with three measures of wheat flour until the whole batch of dough was leavened."--Luke 13:21

ὁμοία ἐστὶν ζύμῃ, ἣν λαβοῦσα γυνὴ ἔκρυψεν εἰς ἀλεύρου σάτα τρία ἕως οὗ ἐζυμώθη ὅλον.--Luke 13:21

He spoke to them another parable. "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of wheat flour until the whole batch was leavened."--Matthew 13:33

Ἄλλην παραβολὴν ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς· Ὁμοία ἐστὶν ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν ζύμῃ, ἣν λαβοῦσα γυνὴ ἐνέκρυψεν εἰς ἀλεύρου σάτα τρία ἕως οὗ ἐζυμώθη ὅλον.--Matthew 13:33

and he said to his disciples, "Sit here *while* I go over there and pray."--Matthew 26:36 (most texts have heos ho)

Τότε ἔρχεται μετ' αὐτῶν ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἰς χωρίον λεγόμενον Γεθσημανὶ, καὶ λέγει τοῖς μαθηταῖς· Καθίσατε αὐτοῦ ἕως οὗ ἀπελθὼν ἐκεῖ προσεύξωμαι.--Matthew 26:36

Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.--Acts 21:26 (KJV)

τότε ὁ Παῦλος παραλαβὼν τοὺς ἄνδρας τῇ ἐχομένῃ ἡμέρᾳ σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁγνισθεὶς εἰσῄει εἰς τὸ ἱερόν, διαγγέλλων τὴν ἐκπλήρωσιν τῶν ἡμερῶν τοῦ ἁγνισμοῦ ἕως οὗ προσηνέχθη ὑπὲρ ἑνὸς ἑκάστου αὐτῶν ἡ προσφορά.--Acts 21:26

And when Paul appealed that he be held in custody for the Emperor's decision, I ordered him held until I could send him to Caesar."--Acts 25:21

τοῦ δὲ Παύλου ἐπικαλεσαμένου τηρηθῆναι αὐτὸν εἰς τὴν τοῦ Σεβαστοῦ διάγνωσιν, ἐκέλευσα τηρεῖσθαι αὐτὸν ἕως οὗ ἀναπέμψω αὐτὸν πρὸς Καίσαρα.--Acts 25:21

"Or what woman having ten coins and losing one would not light a lamp and sweep the house, searching carefully until she finds it?"--Luke 15:8

Ἢ τίς γυνὴ δραχμὰς ἔχουσα δέκα, ἐὰν ἀπολέσῃ δραχμὴν μίαν, οὐχὶ ἅπτει λύχνον καὶ σαροῖ τὴν οἰκίαν καὶ ζητεῖ ἐπιμελῶς ἕως οὗ εὕρῃ;--Luke 15:8

Then he made the disciples get into the boat and precede him to the other side, *while* he dismissed the crowds.--Matthew 14:22

Καὶ εὐθέως ἠνάγκασεν τοὺς μαθητὰς ἐμβῆναι εἰς πλοῖον καὶ προάγειν αὐτὸν εἰς τὸ πέραν, ἕως οὗ ἀπολύσῃ τοὺς ὄχλους. --Matthew 14:22

And (behold) I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."--Luke 24:49

καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ πατρός μου ἐφ' ὑμᾶς· ὑμεῖς δὲ καθίσατε ἐν τῇ πόλει ἕως οὗ ἐνδύσησθε ἐξ ὕψους δύναμιν.--Luke 24:49

Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.--John 13:38

 ἀποκρίνεται Ἰησοῦς· Τὴν ψυχήν σου ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ θήσεις; ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, οὐ μὴ ἀλέκτωρ φωνήσῃ ἕως οὗ ἀρνήσῃ με τρίς.--John 13:38

Moreover, we possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.--2 Peter 1:19

καὶ ἔχομεν βεβαιότερον τὸν προφητικὸν λόγον, ᾧ καλῶς ποιεῖτε προσέχοντες ὡς λύχνῳ φαίνοντι ἐν αὐχμηρῶ τόπῳ, ἕως οὖ ἡμέρα διαυγάσῃ καὶ φωσφόρος ἀνατείλῃ ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν·--2 Peter 1:19

Old Testament Greek Septuagint instances:

Then Nabouchodonosor was filled with anger, and the appearance of his face was distorted against Sedrach, Misach, Abdenago. And he said that the furnace should be stoked up sevenfold until it would be heated completely.-- Daniel 3:19 LXX (Theodotion version)

τότε Ναβουχοδονοσορ ἐπλήσθη θυμοῦ καὶ ἡ ὄψις τοῦ προσώπου αὐτοῦ ἠλλοιώθη ἐπὶ Σεδραχ Μισαχ καὶ Αβδεναγω καὶ εἶπεν ἐκκαῦσαι τὴν κάμινον ἑπταπλασίως ἕως οὗ εἰς τέλος ἐκκαῇ--Daniel 3:19 LXX Theodotion

even until the commander in chief delivers the captives. And sacrifice was overthrown on account of it. And it emerged, and things were prosperous for it, and the sanctuary will be desolated.—Daniel 8:11 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ἕως οὗ ὁ ἀρχιστράτηγος ῥύσηται τὴν αἰχμαλωσίαν καὶ δι᾽ αὐτὸν θυσία ἐρράχθη καὶ ἐγενήθη καὶ κατευοδώθη αὐτῷ καὶ τὸ ἅγιον ἐρημωθήσεται --Daniel 8:11 LXX (Theodotion)

But fifty [forty in other texts] days did not pass *before* two of his sons killed him, and they fled into the mountains of Ararat. Then Sacherdonos his son became king in place of him. And he appointed Achiacharos son of Hanael my brother over all the accounts of his kingdom and over all the administration.--Tobit 1:21 in both versions of the LXX ἕως οὗ is used

καὶ οὐ διῆλθον ἡμέραι τεσσαράκοντα ἕως οὗ ἀπέκτειναν αὐτὸν οἱ δύο υἱοὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὰ ὄρη Αραρατ καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν Σαχερδονος υἱὸς αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ αὐτόν καὶ ἔταξεν Αχιχαρον τὸν Αναηλ τὸν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ μου υἱὸν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν ἐκλογιστίαν τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ καὶ αὐτὸς εἶχεν τὴν ἐξουσίαν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν διοίκησιν --Tobit 1:21 LXX Tobit S

καὶ οὐ διῆλθον ἡμέραι πεντήκοντα ἕως οὗ ἀπέκτειναν αὐτὸν οἱ δύο υἱοὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὰ ὄρη Αραρατ καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν Σαχερδονος ὁ υἱὸς αὐτοῦ ἀντ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔταξεν Αχιαχαρον τὸν Αναηλ υἱὸν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ μου ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν ἐκλογιστίαν τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν διοίκησιν--Tobit 1:21 LXX Tobit BA

*Before* the sun and the light and the moon and the stars are darkened and the clouds return after the rain--Ecclesiastes 12:2 LXX

ἕως οὗ μὴ σκοτισθῇ ὁ ἥλιος καὶ τὸ φῶς καὶ ἡ σελήνη καὶ οἱ ἀστέρες καὶ ἐπιστρέψωσιν τὰ νέφη ὀπίσω τοῦ ὑετοῦ--Ecclesiates 12:2 LXX

Bring my soul out of prison so that I may acknowledge your name [O Lord]. Righteous ones will wait for me until you requite me.--Psalm 141:8 LXX (142:7 in Hebrew based numberings)

ἐξάγαγε ἐκ φυλακῆς τὴν ψυχήν μου τοῦ ἐξομολογήσασθαι τῷ ὀνόματί σου κύριε ἐμὲ ὑπομενοῦσιν δίκαιοι ἕως οὗ ἀνταποδῷς μοι--Psalm 141:8 LXX (142:7 in Hebrew based numberings)

Until the day breathes and the shadows stir, I will go on my own to the mountain of myrrh and to the hill of frankincense [or Lebanon]--Songs of Solomon 4:6 LXX

ἕως οὗ διαπνεύσῃ ἡ ἡμέρα καὶ κινηθῶσιν αἱ σκιαί πορεύσομαι ἐμαυτῷ πρὸς τὸ ὄρος τῆς σμύρνης καὶ πρὸς τὸν βουνὸν τοῦ Λιβάνου--Songs of Solomon 4:6 LXX

And the days which we had gone alongside, from Kades Barne until we passed along the ravine of Zared were thirty-eight years, until the entire generation of the men, warriors, of the camp had fallen away, as the Lord had sworn to them. And the hand of God was against them, to eliminate them from the camp, until they fell away.—Deuteronomy 2:14-15 LXX

καὶ αἱ ἡμέραι ἃς παρεπορεύθημεν ἀπὸ Καδης Βαρνη ἕως οὗ παρήλθομεν τὴν φάραγγα Ζαρετ τριάκοντα καὶ ὀκτὼ ἔτη ἕως οὗ διέπεσεν πᾶσα γενεὰ ἀνδρῶν πολεμιστῶν ἀποθνῄσκοντες ἐκ τῆς παρεμβολῆς καθότι ὤμοσεν αὐτοῖς ὁ θεός.  καὶ ἡ χεὶρ τοῦ θεοῦ ἦν ἐπ᾽ αὐτοῖς ἐξαναλῶσαι αὐτοὺς ἐκ τῆς παρεμβολῆς ἕως οὗ διέπεσαν --Deuteronomy 2:14-15 LXX

The first was like a lioness, and the wings of this one were as of an eagle. I kept watching until its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and was set upon feet of a human, and the heart of a human was given to it.—Daniel 7:4 LXX Theodotion

τὸ πρῶτον ὡσεὶ λέαινα καὶ πτερὰ αὐτῇ ὡσεὶ ἀετοῦ ἐθεώρουν ἕως οὗ ἐξετίλη τὰ πτερὰ αὐτῆς καὶ ἐξήρθη ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐπὶ ποδῶν ἀνθρώπου ἐστάθη καὶ καρδία ἀνθρώπου ἐδόθη αὐτῇ--Daniel 7:4 LXX (Theodotion)

until the ancient of days came, and he gave the judgment for the holy ones of the Most High, and the time arrived, and the holy ones gained possession of the kingdom.—Daniel 7:22 LXX Theodotion
ἕως οὗ ἦλθεν ὁ παλαιὸς τῶν ἡμερῶν καὶ τὸ κρίμα ἔδωκεν ἁγίοις ὑψίστου καὶ ὁ καιρὸς ἔφθασεν καὶ τὴν βασιλείαν κατέσχον οἱ ἅγιοι--Daniel 7:22 LXX (Theodotion)

until Daniel came—whose name was Baltasar according to the name of my god, who has a holy, divine spirit in himself—to whom I said—Daniel 4:8 LXX Theodotion

ἕως οὗ ἦλθεν Δανιηλ οὗ τὸ ὄνομα Βαλτασαρ κατὰ τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θεοῦ μου ὃς πνεῦμα θεοῦ ἅγιον ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχει καὶ τὸ ἐνύπνιον ἐνώπιον αὐτοῦ εἶπα--Daniel 4:8 LXX Theodotion

And because the king saw Ir and a holy one descending from heaven and he said, ‘Pluck out the tree, and destroy it, except leave the growth of its roots in the ground and in an iron and brass band and in the tender grass of the outdoors. And he will lodge in the dew of heaven, and his lot will be with the wild animals until seven seasons change over him’—Daniel 4:23 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ὅτι εἶδεν ὁ βασιλεὺς ιρ καὶ ἅγιον καταβαίνοντα ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καὶ εἶπεν ἐκτίλατε τὸ δένδρον καὶ διαφθείρατε αὐτό πλὴν τὴν φυὴν τῶν ῥιζῶν αὐτοῦ ἐάσατε ἐν τῇ γῇ καὶ ἐν δεσμῷ σιδηρῷ καὶ χαλκῷ καὶ ἐν τῇ χλόῃ τῇ ἔξω καὶ ἐν τῇ δρόσῳ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ αὐλισθήσεται καὶ μετὰ θηρίων ἀγρίων ἡ μερὶς αὐτοῦ ἕως οὗ ἑπτὰ καιροὶ ἀλλοιωθῶσιν ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν --Daniel 4:23 LXX Theodotion

And they will drive you away from humans, and your dwelling will be with the wild animals. And they will feed you grass like an ox, and you will lodge by the dew of heaven, and seven seasons will be altered over you until you acknowledge that the Most High has sovereignty over the kingdom of humans and will give it to whomever he wishes.—Daniel 4:25 LXX Theodotion

καὶ σὲ ἐκδιώξουσιν ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ μετὰ θηρίων ἀγρίων ἔσται ἡ κατοικία σου καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦν ψωμιοῦσίν σε καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δρόσου τοῦ οὐρανοῦ αὐλισθήσῃ καὶ ἑπτὰ καιροὶ ἀλλαγήσονται ἐπὶ σέ ἕως οὗ γνῷς ὅτι κυριεύει ὁ ὕψιστος τῆς βασιλείας τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ ᾧ ἂν δόξῃ δώσει αὐτήν--Daniel 4:25 LXX Theodotion

And they will drive you away from humans, and your dwelling will be with the wild animals. And they will feed you grass like an ox, and seven seasons will be altered over you until you acknowledge that the Most High has sovereignty over the kingdom of humans and will give it to whomever he wishes.”  At the same time, the sentence was completed against Nabouchodonosor, and he was driven away from humans and ate grass like an ox, and his body was bathed with the dew of heaven until his hair lengthened like that of lions and his nails like those of birds.—Daniel 4:32-33 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων σε ἐκδιώξουσιν καὶ μετὰ θηρίων ἀγρίων ἡ κατοικία σου καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦν ψωμιοῦσίν σε καὶ ἑπτὰ καιροὶ ἀλλαγήσονται ἐπὶ σέ ἕως οὗ γνῷς ὅτι κυριεύει ὁ ὕψιστος τῆς βασιλείας τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ ᾧ ἐὰν δόξῃ δώσει αὐτήν αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρᾳ ὁ λόγος συνετελέσθη ἐπὶ Ναβουχοδονοσορ καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἐξεδιώχθη καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦς ἤσθιεν καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δρόσου τοῦ οὐρανοῦ τὸ σῶμα αὐτοῦ ἐβάφη ἕως οὗ αἱ τρίχες αὐτοῦ ὡς λεόντων ἐμεγαλύνθησαν καὶ οἱ ὄνυχες αὐτοῦ ὡς ὀρνέων--Daniel 4:32-33 LXX Theodotion

Now the priests who bore the ark of the covenant stood in the Jordan until Iesous finished everything the Lord commanded him to tell the people. And the people hastened, and they crossed over.--Joshua 4:10 LXX

εἱστήκεισαν δὲ οἱ ἱερεῖς οἱ αἴροντες τὴν κιβωτὸν τῆς διαθήκης ἐν τῷ Ιορδάνῃ ἕως οὗ συνετέλεσεν Ἰησοῦς πάντα ἃ ἐνετείλατο κύριος ἀναγγεῖλαι τῷ λαῷ καὶ ἔσπευσεν ὁ λαὸς καὶ διέβησαν--Joshua 4:10 LXX

and they rejected the Lord among all the offspring of Israel, and he shook them and gave them into the hand of those who plundered them, until he had banished them from his presence-2 Kings 17:20 LXX (4 Kings 17:20 in LXX)

καὶ ἀπεώσαντο τὸν κύριον ἐν παντὶ σπέρματι Ισραηλ καὶ ἐσάλευσεν αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτοὺς ἐν χειρὶ διαρπαζόντων αὐτούς ἕως οὗ ἀπέρριψεν αὐτοὺς ἀπὸ προσώπου αὐτοῦ--2 Kings 17:20 LXX

until the Lord removed Israel from his sight, just as the Lord had spoken by the hand of all his slaves the prophets. And Israel was exiled from upon its own land to the Assyrians until this day.—2 Kings 17:23 LXX (4 Kings 17:23 in LXX)

ἕως οὗ μετέστησεν κύριος τὸν Ισραηλ ἀπὸ προσώπου αὐτοῦ καθὼς ἐλάλησεν κύριος ἐν χειρὶ πάντων τῶν δούλων αὐτοῦ τῶν προφητῶν καὶ ἀπῳκίσθη Ισραηλ ἐπάνωθεν τῆς γῆς αὐτοῦ εἰς Ἀσσυρίους ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης --2 Kings 17:23 LXX

And he made machines in Ierousalem devised by a mathematician to be on the towers and on the corners to fire projectiles and large stones. And their construction was noised abroad far and wide, because it was marveled at in order to be of help until he became strong.—2 Chronicles 26:15

καὶ ἐποίησεν ἐν Ιερουσαλημ μηχανὰς μεμηχανευμένας λογιστοῦ τοῦ εἶναι ἐπὶ τῶν πύργων καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν γωνιῶν βάλλειν βέλεσιν καὶ λίθοις μεγάλοις καὶ ἠκούσθη ἡ κατασκευὴ αὐτῶν ἕως πόρρω ὅτι ἐθαυμαστώθη τοῦ βοηθηθῆναι ἕως οὗ κατίσχυσεν --2 Chronicles 26:15 LXX

And the king spoke, and they brought the men who had slandered Daniel, and they were thrown into the lions’ pit—they and their sons and their wives. And *before* they reached the bottom of the pit the lions overpowered them and pulverized all their bones.—Daniel 6:25 LXX (verse 24 in some) Theodotion

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ βασιλεύς καὶ ἠγάγοσαν τοὺς ἄνδρας τοὺς διαβαλόντας τὸν Δανιηλ καὶ εἰς τὸν λάκκον τῶν λεόντων ἐνεβλήθησαν αὐτοὶ καὶ οἱ υἱοὶ αὐτῶν καὶ αἱ γυναῖκες αὐτῶν καὶ οὐκ ἔφθασαν εἰς τὸ ἔδαφος τοῦ λάκκου ἕως οὗ ἐκυρίευσαν αὐτῶν οἱ λέοντες καὶ πάντα τὰ ὀστᾶ αὐτῶν ἐλέπτυναν --Daniel 6:25 LXX Theodotion (v 24 in some)

And towards morning, the woman came and fell down by the door at the gateway to the man’s house, there where her master was, until it was light.—Judges 19:26 LXX Codex A (Alexandrian)

καὶ ἦλθεν ἡ γυνὴ τὸ πρὸς πρωὶ καὶ ἔπεσεν παρὰ τὴν θύραν τοῦ πυλῶνος τοῦ οἴκου τοῦ ἀνδρός οὗ ἦν ὁ κύριος αὐτῆς ἐκεῖ ἕως οὗ διέφαυσεν --Judges 19:26 LXX Judges A

As for me, behold, I have given bands upon you, and do not turn from your side to your side until the days of your enclosing are completed.—Ezekiel 4:8 LXX

καὶ ἐγὼ ἰδοὺ δέδωκα ἐπὶ σὲ δεσμούς καὶ μὴ στραφῇς ἀπὸ τοῦ πλευροῦ σου ἐπὶ τὸ πλευρόν σου ἕως οὗ συντελεσθῶσιν αἱ ἡμέραι τοῦ συγκλεισμοῦ σου --Ezekiel 4:8 LXX

because you were defiling yourself. And what if you are no longer cleansed until I will sate my fury?—Ezekiel 24:13 LXX

ἀνθ᾽ ὧν ἐμιαίνου σύ καὶ τί ἐὰν μὴ καθαρισθῇς ἔτι ἕως οὗ ἐμπλήσω τὸν θυμόν μου --Ezekiel 24:13 LXX

And Routh stayed close to the girls of Boos, gleaning until he completed the reaping of the barley and the wheat, and she lived with her mother-in-law.—Ruth 2:23 LXX

καὶ προσεκολλήθη Ρουθ τοῖς κορασίοις Βοος συλλέγειν ἕως οὗ συνετέλεσεν τὸν θερισμὸν τῶν κριθῶν καὶ τῶν πυρῶν καὶ ἐκάθισεν μετὰ τῆς πενθερᾶς αὐτῆς --Ruth 2:23 LXX

Now bathe and apply oil and put your clothing on yourself, and go up onto the threshing floor. Do not make yourself known to the man until he has finished drinking and eating.—Ruth 3:3 LXX

σὺ δὲ λούσῃ καὶ ἀλείψῃ καὶ περιθήσεις τὸν ἱματισμόν σου ἐπὶ σεαυτῇ καὶ ἀναβήσῃ ἐπὶ τὸν ἅλω μὴ γνωρισθῇς τῷ ἀνδρὶ ἕως οὗ συντελέσαι αὐτὸν πιεῖν καὶ φαγεῖν--Ruth 3:3 LXX

“But you, Achior, mercenary of Ammon, who have spoken these words in the day of your injustice, from this day forth you shall not see my face again until I punish the race of those out of Egypt.—Judith 6:5 LXX

σὺ δέ Αχιωρ μισθωτὲ τοῦ Αμμων ὃς ἐλάλησας τοὺς λόγους τούτους ἐν ἡμέρᾳ ἀδικίας σου οὐκ ὄψει ἔτι τὸ πρόσωπόν μου ἀπὸ τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης ἕως οὗ ἐκδικήσω τὸ γένος τῶν ἐξ Αἰγύπτου--Judith 6:5 LXX

and you shall not perish until such time as you are utterly destroyed with them.--Judith 6:8 LXX

καὶ οὐκ ἀπολῇ ἕως οὗ ἐξολεθρευθῇς μετ᾽ αὐτῶν --Judith 6:8 LXX

And so they did. And Ioudith set forth, she and her slave-girl with her. The men of the city continued watching her until she went down the mountain, until she passed through the ravine and they no longer saw her—Judith 10:10 LXX

καὶ ἐποίησαν οὕτως καὶ ἐξῆλθεν Ιουδιθ αὐτὴ καὶ ἡ παιδίσκη αὐτῆς μετ᾽ αὐτῆς ἀπεσκόπευον δὲ αὐτὴν οἱ ἄνδρες τῆς πόλεως ἕως οὗ κατέβη τὸ ὄρος ἕως διῆλθεν τὸν αὐλῶνα καὶ οὐκέτι ἐθεώρουν αὐτήν--Judith 10:10 LXX

until I find a place for the Lord, a covert for the God of Iakob!”—Psalm 131:5 LXX

ἕως οὗ εὕρω τόπον τῷ κυρίῳ σκήνωμα τῷ θεῷ Ιακωβ --Psalm 131:5 LXX

And Moab was humbled in that day under the hand of Israel. And the land had rest for eighty years. And Aod judged them until he died.—Judges 3:30 LXX Codex A (Alexandrian)

καὶ ἐνετράπη Μωαβ ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ ὑπὸ τὴν χεῖρα Ισραηλ καὶ ἡσύχασεν ἡ γῆ ὀγδοήκοντα ἔτη καὶ ἔκρινεν αὐτοὺς Αωδ ἕως οὗ ἀπέθανεν--Judges 3:30 LXX Judges A

And Moab was humbled in that day under the hand of Israel. And the land had rest for eighty years. And Aod judged them until he died.—Judges 3:30 LXX Codex B (Vaticanus)

καὶ ἐνετράπη Μωαβ ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ ὑπὸ χεῖρα Ισραηλ καὶ ἡσύχασεν ἡ γῆ ὀγδοήκοντα ἔτη καὶ ἔκρινεν αὐτοὺς Αωδ ἕως οὗ ἀπέθανεν--Judges 3:30 Judges B LXX
And the hand of the sons of Israel was going out, going and becoming hard against King Iabin of Chanaan, until they destroyed King Iabin of Chanaan.—Judges 4:24 LXX Judges B (Codex Vaticanus)

καὶ ἐπορεύετο χεὶρ τῶν υἱῶν Ισραηλ πορευομένη καὶ σκληρυνομένη ἐπὶ Ιαβιν βασιλέα Χανααν ἕως οὗ ἐξωλέθρευσαν τὸν Ιαβιν βασιλέα Χανααν--Judges 4:24 LXX Judges B
Now when the sons of Israel heard, they all with one accord fell upon them and beat them back as far as Choba. And just as those from Ierousalem were present, so too were those from all the highlands, for they had reported to them what had happened to the camp of their enemies. And those in Galaad and those in Galilee outflanked them in a great defeat, until they came to Damascus and its territory.—Judith 15:5 LXX

ὡς δὲ ἤκουσαν οἱ υἱοὶ Ισραηλ πάντες ὁμοθυμαδὸν ἐπέπεσον ἐπ᾽ αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔκοπτον αὐτοὺς ἕως Χωβα ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ οἱ ἐξ Ιερουσαλημ παρεγενήθησαν καὶ ἐκ πάσης τῆς ὀρεινῆς ἀνήγγειλαν γὰρ αὐτοῖς τὰ γεγονότα τῇ παρεμβολῇ τῶν ἐχθρῶν αὐτῶν καὶ οἱ ἐν Γαλααδ καὶ οἱ ἐν τῇ Γαλιλαίᾳ ὑπερεκέρασαν αὐτοὺς πληγῇ μεγάλῃ ἕως οὗ παρῆλθον Δαμασκὸν καὶ τὰ ὅρια αὐτῆς --Judith 15:5 LXX

Therefore, if you do not tell me the dream, I know that you have conspired to speak a lying and corrupt word before me until the time passes. State to me my dream, and I shall know that you can tell me the interpretation.”—Daniel 2:9 LXX Theodotion

ἐὰν οὖν τὸ ἐνύπνιον μὴ ἀναγγείλητέ μοι οἶδα ὅτι ῥῆμα ψευδὲς καὶ διεφθαρμένον συνέθεσθε εἰπεῖν ἐνώπιόν μου ἕως οὗ ὁ καιρὸς παρέλθῃ τὸ ἐνύπνιόν μου εἴπατέ μοι καὶ γνώσομαι ὅτι τὴν σύγκρισιν αὐτοῦ ἀναγγελεῖτέ μοι--Daniel 2:9 LXX Theodotion

you kept looking until a stone was severed from a mountain, not by hands, and it struck the image on the iron and earthenware feet and completely pulverized.—Daniel 2:34 LXX Theodotion

ἐθεώρεις ἕως οὗ ἐτμήθη λίθος ἐξ ὄρους ἄνευ χειρῶν καὶ ἐπάταξεν τὴν εἰκόνα ἐπὶ τοὺς πόδας τοὺς σιδηροῦς καὶ ὀστρακίνους καὶ ἐλέπτυνεν αὐτοὺς εἰς τέλος --Daniel 2:34 LXX Theodotion

And now, report to me all that you have done in these days.” And Ioudith related everything to him in the midst of the people, all that she had done from the day on which she had gone forth until she was speaking to them.—Judith 14:8 LXX

καὶ νῦν ἀνάγγειλόν μοι ὅσα ἐποίησας ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις ταύταις καὶ ἀπήγγειλεν αὐτῷ Ιουδιθ ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ λαοῦ πάντα ὅσα ἦν πεποιηκυῖα ἀφ᾽ ἧς ἡμέρας ἐξῆλθεν ἕως οὗ ἐλάλει αὐτοῖς--Judith 14:8 LXX

He stood up and struck among the allophyles, until his hand grew weary and his hand stuck to the dagger, and the Lord brought about a great deliverance in that day. And the people were encamped behind him—only to despoil.—2 Samuel 23:10 LXX (called 2 Kings 23:10 in LXX)

αὐτὸ νέστη καὶ ἐπάταξεν ἐν τοῖς ἀλλοφύλοις ἕως οὗ ἐκοπίασεν ἡ χεὶρ αὐτοῦ καὶ προσεκολλήθη ἡ χεὶρ αὐτοῦ πρὸς τὴν μάχαιραν καὶ ἐποίησεν κύριος σωτηρίαν μεγάλην ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ καὶ ὁ λαὸς ἐκάθητο ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ πλὴν ἐκδιδύσκειν--2 Samuel 23:10 LXX

And all the assembly did obeisance, and the harp-singers were singing and the trumpets were trumpeting until the whole burnt offering was finished.—2 Chronicles 29:28 LXX

καὶ πᾶσα ἡ ἐκκλησία προσεκύνει καὶ οἱ ψαλτῳδοὶ ᾄδοντες καὶ αἱ σάλπιγγες σαλπίζουσαι ἕως οὗ συνετελέσθη ἡ ὁλοκαύτωσις--2 Chronicles 29:28 LXX

But the priests were few and were unable to skin the whole burnt offering, and their brothers the Leuites assisted them until the task was finished and until the priests were purified, because the Leuites had been purified more eagerly than the priests.—2 Chronicles 29:34 LXX

ἀλλ᾽ ἢ οἱ ἱερεῖς ὀλίγοι ἦσαν καὶ οὐκ ἐδύναντο δεῖραι τὴν ὁλοκαύτωσιν καὶ ἀντελάβοντο αὐτῶν οἱ ἀδελφοὶ αὐτῶν οἱ Λευῖται ἕως οὗ συνετελέσθη τὸ ἔργον καὶ ἕως οὗ ἡγνίσθησαν οἱ ἱερεῖς ὅτι οἱ Λευῖται προθύμως ἡγνίσθησαν παρὰ τοὺς ἱερεῖς--2 Chronicles 29:34 LXX

In his days righteousness will sprout, and an abundance of peace, until the moon vanishes—Psalm 71:7 LXX (Psalm 72 in the most bibles)

 ἀνατελεῖ ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις αὐτοῦ δικαιοσύνη καὶ πλῆθος εἰρήνης ἕως οὗ ἀνταναιρεθῇ ἡ σελήνη --Psalm 71:7 LXX

Scarcely had I passed from them, until I found him whom my soul loved. I took hold of him and would not let him go until I brought him into my mother’s house and into a chamber of her who conceived me.—Songs of Solomon 3:4 LXX

ὡς μικρὸν ὅτε παρῆλθον ἀπ᾽ αὐτῶν ἕως οὗ εὗρον ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου ἐκράτησα αὐτὸν καὶ οὐκ ἀφήσω αὐτόν ἕως οὗ εἰσήγαγον αὐτὸν εἰς οἶκον μητρός μου καὶ εἰς ταμίειον τῆς συλλαβούσης με --Songs of Solomon 3:4 LXX

and the man was exalted, and he kept getting greater, until he became very great.—Genesis 26:13 LXX

καὶ ὑψώθη ὁ ἄνθρωπος καὶ προβαίνων μείζων ἐγίνετο ἕως οὗ μέγας ἐγένετο σφόδρα --Genesis 26:13 LXX

Your ropes broke, because they were not strong. Your mast has bent; it will not release the sails; it will not raise a signal until it is given up for plunder; therefore many lame will take plunder—Isaiah 33:23 LXX

ἐρράγησαν τὰ σχοινία σου ὅτι οὐκ ἐνίσχυσεν ὁ ἱστός σου ἔκλινεν οὐ χαλάσει τὰ ἱστία οὐκ ἀρεῖ σημεῖον ἕως οὗ παραδοθῇ εἰς προνομήν τοίνυν πολλοὶ χωλοὶ προνομὴν ποιήσουσιν --Isaiah 33:23 LXX

Injustice, injustice, I will make it! (But this shall not be such.) Until he comes to whom it is due, I will also give it over to him.—Ezekiel 21:32 (verse 27 In some texts)

ἀδικίαν ἀδικίαν θήσομαι αὐτήν οὐδ᾽ αὕτη τοιαύτη ἔσται ἕως οὗ ἔλθῃ ᾧ καθήκει καὶ παραδώσω αὐτῷ --Ezekiel 21:32 LXX (or verse 27)

you would not wait for them until they mature, would you? Or would you, on their account, refrain from getting married? Don’t, my daughters, for it has been more bitter for me than for you, because the hand of the Lord has gone forth against me.”—Ruth 1:13

μὴ αὐτοὺς προσδέξεσθε ἕως οὗ ἁδρυνθῶσιν ἢ αὐτοῖς κατασχεθήσεσθε τοῦ μὴ γενέσθαι ἀνδρί μὴ δή θυγατέρες μου ὅτι ἐπικράνθη μοι ὑπὲρ ὑμᾶς ὅτι ἐξῆλθεν ἐν ἐμοὶ χεὶρ κυρίου--Ruth 1:13 LXX

until the Lord stoops down and looks from heaven.—Lamentations 3:50 LXX

 ἕως οὗ διακύψῃ καὶ ἴδῃ κύριος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ --Lamentation 3:50 LXX

So before I tasted anything, I sprang up and removed him to a certain chamber until the sun set.—Tobit 2:4 LXX (BA) (short form found in Alexandrian, Vatican, Venetus text)

κἀγὼ πρὶν ἢ γεύσασθαί με ἀναπηδήσας ἀνειλόμην αὐτὸν εἴς τι οἴκημα ἕως οὗ ἔδυ ὁ ἥλιος --Tobit 2:4 LXX Tobit BA (shorter form of Tobit found in most eg Vaticanus, Alexandrinus, Venetus)

I did not know that there were sparrows in the wall, and since my eyes were open the sparrows dropped their warm excrement into my eyes, and white films came into my eyes. So I went to physicians, but they did not help me. Achiacharos, however, supported me until he went to Elymais.—Tobit 2:10 LXX (BA)

καὶ οὐκ ᾔδειν ὅτι στρουθία ἐν τῷ τοίχῳ ἐστίν καὶ τῶν ὀφθαλμῶν μου ἀνεῳγότων ἀφώδευσαν τὰ στρουθία θερμὸν εἰς τοὺς ὀφθαλμούς μου καὶ ἐγενήθη λευκώματα εἰς τοὺς ὀφθαλμούς μου καὶ ἐπορεύθην πρὸς ἰατρούς καὶ οὐκ ὠφέλησάν με Αχιαχαρος δὲ ἔτρεφέν με ἕως οὗ ἐπορεύθη εἰς τὴν Ἐλυμαΐδα --Tobit 2:10 LXX Tobit BA

And she said to him, “Be quiet; stop deceiving me! My child has perished.” And she would go out every day to the road outside by which they had left; during the day she ate no food, and during the nights she never stopped mourning for Tobias her son, until the fourteen days of the wedding feast had ended which Ragouel had sworn that he should have there. Then Tobias said to Ragouel, “Send me back, for my father and mother do not hope to see me again.”—Tobit 10:7 LXX (BA)

καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ σίγα μὴ πλάνα με ἀπώλετο τὸ παιδίον μου καὶ ἐπορεύετο καθ᾽ ἡμέραν εἰς τὴν ὁδὸν ἔξω οἵας ἀπῆλθεν ἡμέρας τε ἄρτον οὐκ ἤσθιεν τὰς δὲ νύκτας οὐ διελίμπανεν θρηνοῦσα Τωβιαν τὸν υἱὸν αὐτῆς ἕως οὗ συνετελέσθησαν αἱ δέκα τέσσαρες ἡμέραι τοῦ γάμου ἃς ὤμοσεν Ραγουηλ ποιῆσαι αὐτὸν ἐκεῖ --Tobit 10:7 LXX Tobit BA
And Ionas went out of the city and sat down opposite the city and made a tent for himself there. And he sat under it in the shade until he should see what would become of the city—Jonah 4:5 LXX

καὶ οὐ διῆλθον ἡμέραι τεσσαράκοντα ἕως οὗ ἀπέκτειναν αὐτὸν οἱ δύο υἱοὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὰ ὄρη Αραρατ καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν Σαχερδονος υἱὸς αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ αὐτόν καὶ ἔταξεν Αχιχαρον τὸν Αναηλ τὸν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ μου υἱὸν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν ἐκλογιστίαν τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ καὶ αὐτὸς εἶχεν τὴν ἐξουσίαν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν διοίκησιν --Jonah 4:5 LXX

Because at first she will travel with him though he twist and turn, fear and dread she will bring upon him, and she will torment him with her training until she has faith in his soul, and she will test him with her statutes.—Sirach 4:17 LXX

ὅτι διεστραμμένως πορεύσεται μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ ἐν πρώτοις φόβον καὶ δειλίαν ἐπάξει ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν καὶ βασανίσει αὐτὸν ἐν παιδείᾳ αὐτῆς ἕως οὗ ἐμπιστεύσῃ τῇ ψυχῇ αὐτοῦ καὶ πειράσει αὐτὸν ἐν τοῖς δικαιώμασιν αὐτῆς --Sirach 4:17 LXX

And all the rulers and all the people gave and brought and dropped into the chest until it was full.—2 Chronicles 24:10 LXX

καὶ ἔδωκαν πάντες ἄρχοντες καὶ πᾶς ὁ λαὸς καὶ εἰσέφερον καὶ ἐνέβαλλον εἰς τὸ γλωσσόκομον ἕως οὗ ἐπληρώθη--2 Chronicles 24:10 LXX

Have mercy on me, O God; have mercy on me, because in you my soul trusts and in the shadow of your wings I will hope until lawlessness passes by.—Psalm 56:2 (57:1 or 57:2 in most Bibles)

ἐλέησόν με ὁ θεός ἐλέησόν με ὅτι ἐπὶ σοὶ πέποιθεν ἡ ψυχή μου καὶ ἐν τῇ σκιᾷ τῶν πτερύγων σου ἐλπιῶ ἕως οὗ παρέλθῃ ἡ ἀνομία--Psalm 56:2 LXX

I have adjured you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the powers and by the forces of the fields that you do not stir up or awake love until it wish!--Songs of Solomon 2:7 LXX

ὥρκισα ὑμᾶς θυγατέρες Ιερουσαλημ ἐν ταῖς δυνάμεσιν καὶ ἐν ταῖς ἰσχύσεσιν τοῦ ἀγροῦ ἐὰν ἐγείρητε καὶ ἐξεγείρητε τὴν ἀγάπην ἕως οὗ θελήσῃ --Songs of Solomon 2:7 LXX

Until the day breathes and the shadows stir, turn, my brotherkin; be like the gazelle or a fawn of stags on mountains with glens—Songs of Solomon 2:17 LXX

ἕως οὗ διαπνεύσῃ ἡ ἡμέρα καὶ κινηθῶσιν αἱ σκιαί ἀπόστρεψον ὁμοιώθητι σύ ἀδελφιδέ μου τῷ δόρκωνι ἢ νεβρῷ ἐλάφων ἐπὶ ὄρη κοιλωμάτων --Songs of Solomon 2:17 LXX

I will go and return to my place until they are annihilated, and they will seek my face.—Hosea 5:15 LXX

πορεύσομαι καὶ ἐπιστρέψω εἰς τὸν τόπον μου ἕως οὗ ἀφανισθῶσιν καὶ ἐπιζητήσουσιν τὸ πρόσωπόν μου ἐν θλίψει αὐτῶν ὀρθριοῦσι πρός με λέγοντες--Hosea 5:15 LXX

And indeed Manasses shed very much innocent blood, until he had filled Ierousalem mouth to mouth, besides some of his sins that he made Iouda sin so that they did what was evil in the sight of the Lord—2 Kings 21:16 LXX (4 Kings 21:16 in LXX)

 καί γε αἷμα ἀθῷον ἐξέχεεν Μανασσης πολὺ σφόδρα ἕως οὗ ἔπλησεν τὴν Ιερουσαλημ στόμα εἰς στόμα πλὴν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν αὐτοῦ ὧν ἐξήμαρτεν τὸν Ιουδαν τοῦ ποιῆσαι τὸ πονηρὸν ἐν ὀφθαλμοῖς κυρίου--2 Kings 21:16 LXX
and they ministered with instruments before the tent of the house of witness, until Salomon had built the Lord’s house in Ierousalem, and they stood according to their rule at their ministrations.—1 Chronicles 6:17 LXX

καὶ ἦσαν λειτουργοῦντες ἐναντίον τῆς σκηνῆς οἴκου μαρτυρίου ἐν ὀργάνοις ἕως οὗ ᾠκοδόμησεν Σαλωμων τὸν οἶκον κυρίου ἐν Ιερουσαλημ καὶ ἔστησαν κατὰ τὴν κρίσιν αὐτῶν ἐπὶ τὰς λειτουργίας αὐτῶν --1 Chronicles 6:17 LXX
Until he receives it, he will kiss his hands, and about his fellow’s money he lowers his voice, and at the moment for repayment he will delay for time and will pay back words of apathy, and he will blame the time.—Sirach 29:5

ἕως οὗ λάβῃ καταφιλήσει χεῖρας αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν χρημάτων τοῦ πλησίον ταπεινώσει φωνήν καὶ ἐν καιρῷ ἀποδόσεως παρελκύσει χρόνον καὶ ἀποδώσει λόγους ἀκηδίας καὶ τὸν καιρὸν αἰτιάσεται--Sirach 29:5 LXX
Firm is his heart; he will never be afraid, until he looks on his enemies—Psalm 111:8 LXX

ἐστήρικται ἡ καρδία αὐτοῦ οὐ μὴ φοβηθῇ ἕως οὗ ἐπίδῃ ἐπὶ τοὺς ἐχθροὺς αὐτοῦ --Psalm 111:8 LXX 
And he was driven from humans, and his heart was rendered with the animals. And his dwelling was with the wild asses, and they would feed him grass like an ox, and his body was bathed with the dew of heaven until he acknowledged that the Most High God has sovereignty over the kingdom of humans, and will give it to whomever he wishes.—Daniel 5:21 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἐξεδιώχθη καὶ ἡ καρδία αὐτοῦ μετὰ τῶν θηρίων ἐδόθη καὶ μετὰ ὀνάγρων ἡ κατοικία αὐτοῦ καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦν ἐψώμιζον αὐτόν καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δρόσου τοῦ οὐρανοῦ τὸ σῶμα αὐτοῦ ἐβάφη ἕως οὗ ἔγνω ὅτι κυριεύει ὁ θεὸς ὁ ὕψιστος τῆς βασιλείας τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ ᾧ ἂν δόξῃ δώσει αὐτήν --Daniel 5:21 LXX Theodotion
And your sin which you had made, the bull calf, I took it and burned it with fire and crushed it, grinding thoroughly, until it became fine and it was as dust, and I threw the dust into the wadi that runs down from the mountain.—Deuteronomy 9:21

καὶ τὴν ἁμαρτίαν ὑμῶν ἣν ἐποιήσατε τὸν μόσχον ἔλαβον αὐτὸν καὶ κατέκαυσα αὐτὸν ἐν πυρὶ καὶ συνέκοψα αὐτὸν καταλέσας σφόδρα ἕως οὗ ἐγένετο λεπτόν καὶ ἐγενήθη ὡσεὶ κονιορτός καὶ ἔρριψα τὸν κονιορτὸν εἰς τὸν χειμάρρουν τὸν καταβαίνοντα ἐκ τοῦ ὄρους --Deuteronomy 9:21 LXX

And I did not believe the reports until I came and my eyes saw, and behold, I had not been told the half of the abundance of your wisdom. You have added to the rumor I heard.—2 Chronicles 9:6 LXX

καὶ οὐκ ἐπίστευσα τοῖς λόγοις ἕως οὗ ἦλθον καὶ εἶδον οἱ ὀφθαλμοί μου καὶ ἰδοὺ οὐκ ἀπηγγέλη μοι ἥμισυ τοῦ πλήθους τῆς σοφίας σου προσέθηκας ἐπὶ τὴν ἀκοήν ἣν ἤκουσα--2 Chronicles 9:6 LXX
And you will be in grave infirmity with a sickness of the belly until your belly comes out with the infirmity from days to days.”—2 Chronicles 21:15 LXX

 καὶ σὺ ἐν μαλακίᾳ πονηρᾷ ἐν νόσῳ κοιλίας ἕως οὗ ἐξέλθῃ ἡ κοιλία σου μετὰ τῆς μαλακίας ἐξ ἡμερῶν εἰς ἡμέρας --2 Chronicles 21:15 LXX
And it happened after these things that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, became ill, and his illness was so severe until there was no breath left in him.—1 Kings 17:17 LXX (3 Kings 17:17 in LXX)

καὶ ἐγένετο μετὰ ταῦτα καὶ ἠρρώστησεν ὁ υἱὸς τῆς γυναικὸς τῆς κυρίας τοῦ οἴκου καὶ ἦν ἡ ἀρρωστία αὐτοῦ κραταιὰ σφόδρα ἕως οὗ οὐχ ὑπελείφθη ἐν αὐτῷ πνεῦμα--1 Kings 17:17 LXX
And Salomon sought to put Ieroboam to death, and he arose and fled to Egypt to King Sousakim of Egypt, and he was in Egypt until Salomon died.—1 Kings 11:40 LXX (3 Kings 11:40)

καὶ ἐζήτησεν Σαλωμων θανατῶσαι τὸν Ιεροβοαμ καὶ ἀνέστη καὶ ἀπέδρα εἰς Αἴγυπτον πρὸς Σουσακιμ βασιλέα Αἰγύπτου καὶ ἦν ἐν Αἰγύπτῳ ἕως οὗ ἀπέθανεν Σαλωμων--1 Kings 11:40 LXX

And all the work was accomplished from the day it was founded until Salomon completed the Lord’s house.—2 Chronicles 8:16 LXX

 καὶ ἡτοιμάσθη πᾶσα ἡ ἐργασία ἀφ᾽ ἧς ἡμέρας ἐθεμελιώθη ἕως οὗ ἐτελείωσεν Σαλωμων τὸν οἶκον κυρίου--2 Chronicles 8:16 LXX

They shall vanish like water that flows through; he will bend his bow until they become weak.—Psalm 57:8 LXX (Psalm 58 in most bibles)

ἐξουδενωθήσονται ὡς ὕδωρ διαπορευόμενον ἐντενεῖ τὸ τόξον αὐτοῦ ἕως οὗ ἀσθενήσουσιν --Psalm 57:8 LXX

Look, as slaves’ eyes look to their masters’ hands, as a maid’s eyes to her mistress’ hands, so our eyes look to the Lord our God, until he has compassion on us.—Psalm 122:2 (Psalm 123 in most)

 ἰδοὺ ὡς ὀφθαλμοὶ δούλων εἰς χεῖρας τῶν κυρίων αὐτῶν ὡς ὀφθαλμοὶ παιδίσκης εἰς χεῖρας τῆς κυρίας αὐτῆς οὕτως οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ ἡμῶν πρὸς κύριον τὸν θεὸν ἡμῶν ἕως οὗ οἰκτιρήσαι ἡμᾶς --Psalm 122:2 LXX

And there was a great famine in Samaria, and behold, they besieged it until a donkey’s head was fifty shekels of silver, and the fourth of a kab of doves’ dung was five shekels of silver.—2 King 6:25 LXX (4 Kings 6:25)

καὶ ἐγένετο λιμὸς μέγας ἐν Σαμαρείᾳ καὶ ἰδοὺ περιεκάθηντο ἐπ᾽ αὐτήν ἕως οὗ ἐγενήθη κεφαλὴ ὄνου πεντήκοντα σίκλων ἀργυρίου καὶ τέταρτον τοῦ κάβου κόπρου περιστερῶν πέντε σίκλων ἀργυρίου--2 Kings 6:25 LXX

Pseudopigraphical/Apocrypha/Miscellaneous writings:

in no way did he turn the rudder of religion until he sailed into the haven of immortal victory.--4 Maccabees 7:3 (RSV)

κατ᾽ οὐδένα τρόπον ἔτρεψε τοὺς τῆς εὐσεβείας οἴακας ἕως οὗ ἔπλευσεν ἐπὶ τὸν τῆς ἀθανάτου νίκης λιμένα--4 Maccabees 7:3

Pagan/secular writings:

the Spartans only, although they dwelt in an unwalled city, and were few in number because of their continual wars, and had become much weaker and an easy prey, still keeping alive some feeble sparks of the laws of Lycurgus, did not take any part in the campaigns of these or of the other kings of Macedon who ruled in the interval following, nor did they ever enter the general congress or even pay tribute. So it was, until they ceased altogether to observe the laws of Lycurgus, and came to be ruled despotically by their own citizens, preserving nothing of their ancestral discipline any longer, and so they became much like the rest, and put from them their former glory and freedom of speech, and were reduced to a state of subjection; and now they, like the rest of the Greeks, have come under Roman sway.-- Plutarch, Instituta Laconica 42 (writing in Koine Greek in the 1st century and early 2nd)

μόνοι Λακεδαιμόνιοι, καίπερ ἀτείχιστον πόλιν ἔχοντες καὶ ὀλίγοι πάνυ ὄντες διὰ τοὺς συνεχεῖς πολέμους καὶ πολὺ ἀσθενέστεροι καὶ εὐχείρωτοι γενόμενοι, πάνυ βραχέα τινὰ ζώπυρα διασῴζοντες τῆς Λυκούργου νομοθεσίας, οὔτε συνεστράτευσαν οὔτε τούτοις οὔτε τοῖς μεταξὺ Μακεδονικοῖς βασιλεῦσιν, οὔτ᾽ εἰς συνέδριον κοινὸν εἰσῆλθον οὐδὲ φόρον ἤνεγκαν: ἕως οὗ παντάπασιν  ὑπεριδόντες τὴν Λυκούργου νομοθεσίαν ὑπὸ τῶν ἰδίων πολιτῶν ἐτυραννεύθησαν μηδὲν ἔτι σῴζοντες τῆς πατρίου ἀγωγῆς, καὶ παραπλήσιοι τοῖς ἄλλοις γενόμενοι τὴν πρόσθεν εὔκλειαν καὶ παρρησίαν ἀπέθεντο καὶ εἰς δουλείαν μετέστησαν, καὶ νῦν ὑπὸ Ῥωμαίοις καθάπερ οἱ ἄλλοι Ἕλληνες ἐγένοντο..-- Plutarch, Instituta Laconica 42 (writing in Koine Greek in the 1st century and early 2nd)

But those my fellow legates, having gotten great riches from those tithes which as priests were their dues, and were given to them, determined to return to their own country. Yet when I desired them to stay so long, that we might first settle the public affairs, they complied with me.--The Life of Flavius Josephus, Section 63 (paragraph 12)

οἱ δὲ συμπρέσβεις εὐπορήσαντες πολλῶν χρημάτων ἐκ τῶν διδομένων αὐτοῖς δεκατῶν, ἃς ὄντες ἱερεῖς ὀφειλομένας ἀπελάμβανον, εἰς τὴν οἰκείαν ὑποστρέφειν ἔκριναν. ἐμοῦ δ᾽ αὐτοὺς προσμεῖναι παρακαλέσαντος ἕως οὗ τὰ πράγματα καταστήσωμεν, πείθονται.--The Life of Flavius Josephus, Section 63 (paragraph 12)

When the day appointed for the battle arrived, Pallene (who had fallen deeply in love with Clitus) was terribly afraid for him: she dared not tell what she felt to any of her companions, but tears coursed down and down over her cheeks until her old tutor realized the state of affairs, and, after he had become aware of her passion, encouraged her to be of good cheer, as all would come about according to her desires: and he went off and suborned the chariot-driver of Dryas, inducing him, by the promise of a heavy bribe, to leave undone the pins of his chariot-wheels.--Parthenius, Narrationes Amatoriae 6.3

Τῆς δὲ ἀφωρισμένης ἡμέρας παρούσης, ἡ Παλλήνη ῾ἔτυχε γὰρ ἐρῶσα τοῦ Κλείτοὐ πάνυ ὠρρώδει περὶ αὐτοῦ, καὶ σημῆναι μὲν οὐκ ἐτόλμα τινὶ τῶν ἀμφ̓ αὑτήν, δάκρυα δὲ πολλὰ κατεχεῖτο τῶν παρειῶν αὐτῆς, ἕως οὗ ὁ τροφεὺς αὐτῆς πρεσβύτης ἀναπυνθανόμενος καὶ ἐπιγνοὺς τὸ πάθος τῇ μὲν θαρρεῖν παρεκελεύσατο, ὡς ᾗ βούλεται, ταύτῃ τοῦ πράγματος χωρήσοντος:-- Parthenius, Narrationes Amatoriae 6.3

If as many numbers as we please beginning from an unit be set out continuously in double proportion, until the sum of all becomes prime, and if the sum multiplied into the last make some number, the product will be perfect.      
For let as many numbers as we please, A, B, C, D, beginning from an unit be set out in double proportion, until the sum of all becomes prime, let E be equal to the sum, and let E by multiplying D make FG; I say that FG is perfect.--Euclid, Elements Book 9, Proposition 36, c 300 BC

ἐὰν ἀπὸ μονάδος ὁποσοιοῦν ἀριθμοὶ ἑξῆς ἐκτεθῶσιν ἐν τῇ διπλασίονι ἀναλογίᾳ, ἕως οὗ ὁ σύμπας συντεθεὶς πρῶτος γένηται, καὶ ὁ σύμπας ἐπὶ τὸν ἔσχατον πολλαπλασιασθεὶς ποιῇ τινα,
ὁ γενόμενος τέλειος ἔσται.
ἀπὸ γὰρ μονάδος ἐκκείσθωσαν ὁσοιδηποτοῦν ἀριθμοὶ ἐν τῇ διπλασίονι ἀναλογίᾳ, ἕως οὗ ὁ σύμπας συντεθεὶς πρῶτος γένηται, οἱ Α, Β, Γ, Δ, καὶ τῷ σύμπαντι ἴσος ἔστω--Euclid, Elements Book 9, Proposition 36