you: Yes he certainly wasn’t a traitor - nor was he a self obsessed narcissist who claimed divinity and asked to be worshipped alongside the Only True God (the Father - the ONLY ‘person’ in the ‘Godhead’) - in direct violation of the first commandment. Rather he was a Holy humble servant and worshipper of God. Jesus didn’t expect people to submit to him - he expected to be obeyed as any prophet is sent to be obeyed because a prophet ‘doesn’t speak of his own authority’ but is simply conveying Gods commands. Obedience and apparent ‘submission’ to the prophet is therefore actual obedience and ‘submission’ to God. John 16:7 needs to be reconciled with John 14:16 otherwise there is a contradiction of who is doing the sending. It’s a simple reconciliation. John 16:7 is interpreted as : Jesus will send him. How? By PRAYING to the Father (the Only True God) to send him. Aside from the fact that John 14 is a total and complete disaster for your trinity: where you have ‘person 2’ of the ‘Godhead’ praying to ‘person 1’ to send ‘person 3’ and then ‘person 1’ sending ‘person 3’ after ‘person 2’ leaves - but you also have the problem with the Holy Spirit clearly being around during Jesus’s ministry. A Trinitarian reading of John 14 has God praying to God to send God but God can’t send God until God goes but only after God goes can God then send God 🤔 God doesn’t PRAY like a servant God isn’t SENT like an errand boy. Rather God is prayed TO Rather God SENDS and gives orders Being SENT and PRAYING implies subordination. What kind of pathetic excuses for Gods are these 2? Not to mention that neither the ‘Son’ or ‘Holy Spirit’ know when the day of Judgement is (Matthew 24:36) - it’s pretty clear which ‘person’ is the True God here. Muhammad is the ‘Spirit of Truth’ and the ‘Prince of the World’ of John 14:30 who came and FULFILLED John 14:31. How? John 14:31 is implying a vindication - and that’s exactly what Muhammad ï·º did. He VINDICATED Jesus. We have the Jews vilifying him for being an instigator of idolatry. And we have the Christians ‘feeding’ the Jews with ammunition to carry on vilifying him by insisting Jesus claimed divinity and taught the blasphemous trinity! So who’s fighting poor Jesus’s corner? Who’s representing the true Jesus? Well, God sent the ‘Ahmed’ of the Gentiles to vindicate Jesus. We now have a billion plus Muslims who fight Jesus’s corner and portray the true Jesus. The Jews can’t refute the Muslim Jesus but can easily refute your Jesus. Islam is the true middle path with regards to Jesus - between the VILIFICATION of the Jews and the DEIFICATION of the Christians. Islam already has the world’s largest religious denomination (Sunni islam) and will soon be the biggest religion in the world. That means the largest unified belief about Jesus will very soon be the Muslim belief. This is a complete fulfilment of John 14:31. Additionally, to imply that God (which the Holy Spirit supposedly is) can’t ‘speak on his own authority’ is blasphemy. God can’t speak on his own authority?? “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth (complete religion for the world). For He will NOT speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will tell you what is yet to come” - John 16:13 “And he (Muhammad ï·º) is NOT speaking of his own desires, it is all simply a revelation sent down to him” - Quran 53:3-4
You: He is the Prince of the World and the Master/Leader/Lord
(Sayyid) of the Messengers…. If you wish to say that John 14:30 is referring to Satan then you be my
guest. If the ‘Prince of the world’ means something else somewhere else in your
bible then that’s your problem. It’s not my fault your bible contradicts itself
every other page.
Me: “Prince of the World”= Satan, I will say it again,
Protestant, Catholics, and Orthodox agree on this. You are being deceptive, you
say the Bible is contradictory (but never prove it), yet you fail to show a
single verse in the Bible where the title “prince of the World” is a holy title
to have. To be part of the World in the New Testament means to be under the
power of Satan, so to be “prince of the World” means the person is Satan. Show
me the contradiction, you cited John 16 too, yet John 16 says the Prince of the
World Is evil also because it says he will be damned to Hell. John 1 explains
the world is in darkness, and Jesus comes to bring light to it. I have no issue if you wish to cite a passage
about Muhammad being the devil, frankly, we know about his deeds, he took his
step sons wife, he claimed God said its ok to have sex slaves who are still
married to their husbands, he married a little girl. If Muhammad is not Satan, he is sure close to
it, what good is preaching monotheism if it permits sins Jesus, Holy is His
Name, said will send the Soul to damnation? Jesus said taking another
wife/husband is adultery, yet Muhammad permits it. That is your own problem.
But I know the fact is, most Muslims know nothing about the New Testament
outside of usually John 14, where they also conveniently skip verse 6 where
Jesus uses titles for himself that Muslim says are exclusive to Allah, “I am
the way, the truth, the life” and says “I am the Light of the World.” He is the
light because the world is evil and He exposes it. John 14:23 Jesus said He will DWELL inside of
us, how can he be a mere man? Jesus answered and said to him,
“Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will
come to him and make our dwelling with him.” The same chapter says Jesus will answer
prayers too!
you said: If Jesus explicitly seemingly refers to the ‘Holy Spirit’ then this is still ok. In Muslim theology the Holy Spirit is Gabriel - not God. And it was Gabriel who conveyed the Quran (whatsoever he will hear he will speak) to Muhammad.
me: Nice try! Gabriel in Matthew 1:35 says he is not the Holy Spirit! Jesus gives His Apostles the Holy Spirit in John 20:22-23 by breathing on them saying, receive the Holy Spirit! Whose sins you forgive—are forgiven! Furthermore, John 3:5 says you must be born of “water and Spirit” This is not Gabriel, Gabriel cannot forgive sins, people cannot receive Gabriel, or be born of Gabriel. Either way, you have to jump through hoops to make it Muhammad. Jesus gives instructions that all nations are to be baptized in the “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” Yet you think this is Gabriel? Luke 1:15 says St John the Baptist, was “filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb” Likewise, Luke 1:41 and 67 say John’s parents were both filled with the Holy Spirit. The Angel Gabriel when speaking to Mary says “the Holy Spirit will come upon you…” in order to conceive Jesus. Luke 1:26 explicitly says this angel is GABRIEL. St Luke who wrote the gospel of Luke immediately after wrote the book of Acts which is all about miracles the Holy Spirit performed after It entered Christians. John 14:26 says the Paraclete will reminds the Apostles of things Jesus said, what did Muhammad remind them of? They all were dead. Furthermore, let’s say it’s not just about the Apostles, what did Mohammad remind people of that Jesus said? Muhammad rejected Jesus’ commandments therefore, he did not love Jesus according to Jesus’ own words in John 14:15.
you said: He is widely regarded as the most influential, successful and chronicled Abrahamic prophet in human history by impartial historians.
me: You sound like Donald Trump. Successful? Well he did get lots of money off of his religion, he did get lots of women to have sex with. He had to get an army, his message failed to spread initially by peace. You brag about the “most” yet Jesus and the Torah warn about the majority, telling us things like “do not follow the majority” “will there be faith when the Son of Man returns?” Islam is just part of humanities resistance to the truth of Christ, just another means of Satan to attack humanity by making them follow an oppressive system. Most religious Muslim nations are terrible places to be, Muslims flee in droves to Western, non Muslim nations, so why do you go and brag about “x, y, z” is Muslim. Almost no one when given the choice wants to live under Muslim rule, including many Muslims. By the way, name one non-Muslim historian that says this.
you: He has brought more people to the God of Abraham and Pure Abrahamic/Mosaic (non trinity) 1st commandment Monotheistic doctrine than ALL the prophets before him combined.
you said: If Jesus explicitly seemingly refers to the ‘Holy Spirit’ then this is still ok. In Muslim theology the Holy Spirit is Gabriel - not God. And it was Gabriel who conveyed the Quran (whatsoever he will hear he will speak) to Muhammad.
me: Nice try! Gabriel in Matthew 1:35 says he is not the Holy Spirit! Jesus gives His Apostles the Holy Spirit in John 20:22-23 by breathing on them saying, receive the Holy Spirit! Whose sins you forgive—are forgiven! Furthermore, John 3:5 says you must be born of “water and Spirit” This is not Gabriel, Gabriel cannot forgive sins, people cannot receive Gabriel, or be born of Gabriel. Either way, you have to jump through hoops to make it Muhammad. Jesus gives instructions that all nations are to be baptized in the “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” Yet you think this is Gabriel? Luke 1:15 says St John the Baptist, was “filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb” Likewise, Luke 1:41 and 67 say John’s parents were both filled with the Holy Spirit. The Angel Gabriel when speaking to Mary says “the Holy Spirit will come upon you…” in order to conceive Jesus. Luke 1:26 explicitly says this angel is GABRIEL. St Luke who wrote the gospel of Luke immediately after wrote the book of Acts which is all about miracles the Holy Spirit performed after It entered Christians. John 14:26 says the Paraclete will reminds the Apostles of things Jesus said, what did Muhammad remind them of? They all were dead. Furthermore, let’s say it’s not just about the Apostles, what did Mohammad remind people of that Jesus said? Muhammad rejected Jesus’ commandments therefore, he did not love Jesus according to Jesus’ own words in John 14:15.
you said: He is widely regarded as the most influential, successful and chronicled Abrahamic prophet in human history by impartial historians.
me: You sound like Donald Trump. Successful? Well he did get lots of money off of his religion, he did get lots of women to have sex with. He had to get an army, his message failed to spread initially by peace. You brag about the “most” yet Jesus and the Torah warn about the majority, telling us things like “do not follow the majority” “will there be faith when the Son of Man returns?” Islam is just part of humanities resistance to the truth of Christ, just another means of Satan to attack humanity by making them follow an oppressive system. Most religious Muslim nations are terrible places to be, Muslims flee in droves to Western, non Muslim nations, so why do you go and brag about “x, y, z” is Muslim. Almost no one when given the choice wants to live under Muslim rule, including many Muslims. By the way, name one non-Muslim historian that says this.
you: He has brought more people to the God of Abraham and Pure Abrahamic/Mosaic (non trinity) 1st commandment Monotheistic doctrine than ALL the prophets before him combined.
Me: only true if you ignore Trinity, because that had more
people. Islam is partly successful because it feeds men’s sinful desires—cravings
for sex and power. The Teachings of the Lord Jesus promote CELIBACY, condemn
divorce and remarriage, discourage seeking wealth, promotes self sacrifice to
the point you must be willing to accept martyrdom at the hands of unbelievers.
We do not die expecting to have sex with women that sound like whore with
plastic surgery in heaven, Jesus said there is no marriage, procreation and so
on in Heaven, we will live like angels.
you: He has eradicated more idolatry worldwide than ALL the other prophets combined. He has been responsible for more prostrations carried out in monotheistic worship to the God of Abraham on the face of this earth than ALL the previous prophets combined.
me: God does not accept Muslim worship. Islam does not even know if God is omnipresent. To Christians it is obvious He is everywhere, since the universe exists within God, otherwise God would be limited/finite. We do not say such nonsense like “God has no left hand, only two right hands.” Yes, leaving idol worship is good, but these people will still be destine for Hell if they follow Muhammad’s teachings or believe many of the passages of the Quran which permit what we know to be damnable sin. What good is it for someone to worship the true God if their role model to follow was a sex addict with sex slaves, a child bride, a man that tortured people, a man that claimed the Quran came from God, but have “revelations” that are obviously to benefit himself or are foolish like not lingering at Muhammad’s house too long, or his special permission to have more wives.
you: He has eradicated more idolatry worldwide than ALL the other prophets combined. He has been responsible for more prostrations carried out in monotheistic worship to the God of Abraham on the face of this earth than ALL the previous prophets combined.
me: God does not accept Muslim worship. Islam does not even know if God is omnipresent. To Christians it is obvious He is everywhere, since the universe exists within God, otherwise God would be limited/finite. We do not say such nonsense like “God has no left hand, only two right hands.” Yes, leaving idol worship is good, but these people will still be destine for Hell if they follow Muhammad’s teachings or believe many of the passages of the Quran which permit what we know to be damnable sin. What good is it for someone to worship the true God if their role model to follow was a sex addict with sex slaves, a child bride, a man that tortured people, a man that claimed the Quran came from God, but have “revelations” that are obviously to benefit himself or are foolish like not lingering at Muhammad’s house too long, or his special permission to have more wives.
you: His life, sayings, scripture, law and teachings have been better preserved than ALL the previous prophets combined.
me: Actually, we know more about Joseph Smith than Muhammad, he is another false prophet, that we call “America’s Muhammad.” We know more about Joseph Smith than Muhammad and all other previous “prophets” combined. So what? Generally with new religions they are better documented, which is why people are leaving Islam and Mormonism because the documentation about how evil these men were is revealed.
you: He has brought ALL the land promised to Abraham in Genesis 15:18-21 to the God of Abraham and Pure Abrahamic Monotheism.
Me: Israel is not Muslim. Furthermore, this was for the Jews.
No one else. This was accomplished in David and Solomon’s time, but because of
sin, they lost most of the land.
You: All the land Jesus preached and walked on and all the
surrounding lands have all become followers of his religion.
me: This is deceptive. Many of these people’s ancestors converted by force, or to improve their status in society. People accepted Jesus’ teaching because it was clear He was actually sent by God, raised the dead, sealed the sick, cured the blind, preached mercy, forgiveness, and said He was sent to die for the sins of humanity. Most of His Apostles were killed preaching the Holy Gospel. Muhammad made an army. The indigenous people of these lands are not Muslim. Ethnic Syrian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Greek people are still Christians, not Muslims. Arab Muslims took over their lands by force, yet you think this is a great feat.
you: His followers have had Temple Mount for the last 1300 years.
me: This is deceptive. Many of these people’s ancestors converted by force, or to improve their status in society. People accepted Jesus’ teaching because it was clear He was actually sent by God, raised the dead, sealed the sick, cured the blind, preached mercy, forgiveness, and said He was sent to die for the sins of humanity. Most of His Apostles were killed preaching the Holy Gospel. Muhammad made an army. The indigenous people of these lands are not Muslim. Ethnic Syrian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Greek people are still Christians, not Muslims. Arab Muslims took over their lands by force, yet you think this is a great feat.
you: His followers have had Temple Mount for the last 1300 years.
Me: On and off. Furthermore, many Muslims deny the temple
was even there, so why do you call it that? People don’t take it from you
because everyone know Muslims will become more violent and terroristic, it is
in the interest of humanity to not encourage more Muslim terrorism.
You: His scripture (the words put into the mouth of the
prophet like Moses : Deuteronomy 18:18) have become the
most recited and memorised words in human history. He has taught over a billion
Gentiles to love the Holy prophets and love Jesus and revere his mother Mary as
the most pious women who ever walked the earth.
Me: Deuteronomy 18:18 was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus, since
He is a Jew. Muhammad is not a Jew, and the verse is about “your brethren” eg
JEWS. Many Muslims have no clue who Jesus is, Jesus drank wine, said adultery
was a sin, said lust was a sin, and said He is equal to God being His only Son!
If Islam loved Jesus they would admit He was the most Pious man to ever walk
the Earth too—he was SINLESS. Even the Quran mentions God creating through
Jesus, quoting a story of Him creating birds. He also taught people that idol
worshippers/homosexuals like Alexander the Great were prophets.
You: And according to you, there’s no mention of this
‘insignificant’ individual and all the above events in your supposed book ‘full
of prophesies’!!!
Me: I never said that, we believe Muhammad and other false
prophets are warned about by Jesus, Paul, and John. In fact, St Paul, long
before Muhammad made the SPECIFIC point. No wonder Islam hates St Paul! But
even if we or an angel from heaven should preach [to you] a gospel other than
the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!==Galatians 1:8.
Jesus warned about reports of wars, persecution and the rise of “Many false prophets will arise and deceive many;”—Matthew 24:11. Christians believe it is no longer prophet to
follow a prophet after Jesus, since He is the Son of God. Muhammad in any way
you twist him, will always be inferior to Jesus, Jesus you know was born of a
Virgin, created birds, healed people—Muhammad did none of this. He defiled
virgins and wives, and killed people.
You: That’s actually laughable and embarrassing for you.
Forgive us for trying to add veracity to your bible and make a suggestion that
Jesus may have mentioned him.
me: Again, Jesus and Paul mention false prophets who will have great success that teach doctrine different from the New Testament. Muhammad fits this description.
me: Again, Jesus and Paul mention false prophets who will have great success that teach doctrine different from the New Testament. Muhammad fits this description.
You: Muhammad was LIKE Moses.
Me: Muhammad was not an Israel, that alone disqualifies him.
You: All the Israelite prophets after Moses including Jesus
weren’t LIKE Moses, rather they were UNDER Moses and UNDER his law and studied
the scripture of Moses. Moses didn’t study the scripture of a previous prophet
and wasn’t under the law of a previous prophet.
Me: Moses’ had to follow the traditions the Jews received
Abraham, the Mosaic law is not a fresh law, it was built off of by the previous
prophets. God gave laws to Noah in Genesis 10-11, and laws to Abraham.
You: Rather Moses received a fresh law and a fresh scripture
and a fresh nation.
Me: Israel existed as a nation generations before Moses,
Israel is the name of Jacob—the ancestor of Moses, and even then, God said to
Abraham “I will make you into a nation.” So do not claim this is a “fresh”
nation, it’s not, no practicing Jew believes this. Any time some writes
scripture its generally “fresh.” Albeit, much of the Quran is plagiarized, even
what “Allah” says in Chapter 1 is actually a Jewish rabbi.
You: In this way, Muhammad was LIKE Moses. A mighty law bringing
prophet who received a fresh law, scripture, and nation and who didn’t study
the Torah and was never UNDER its law.
Me: He was raised by his mother and sister, who were
Israelites, they passed on the traditions from Abraham. Read Exodus 1, it says
the Hebrew midwives did not kill the male babies because “they feared God” how
can they fear him if they had no law? Genesis 22 says God gave the law to
Abraham.
You: Muhammad’s ‘nation’ are the new nation and new
‘tenants’ who received the ‘Kingdom of God’ after the Israelite rejection of
Jesus and John the Baptist prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 21:33-44.
Me: Jesus spoke to the Jews who rejected him, this prophecy
was fulfilled right after, not 600 years later. Furthermore, Jesus said the
last person the Father sent after all the prophets who were killed was “His Son”
who the Jews killed also. “FINALLY, he sent his son to them…”—Matthew
21:37. Jesus preached the kingdom of God
came right then! He gave St Peter in Matthew 16:18 the “keys of the Kingdom”
which means it was already present! 1 Peter 2 says Christians are a “holy
nation” and “kingdom.” Matthew 21:31 says “I say to you, tax collectors and
prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you.” The Jews lost their
land long before Muhammad, they were banished a generation after killing Jesus,
this parable has nothing to do with actual land. It had to do with being in God’s
favor. By the way, this parable is about WINE, you Muslims believe you cannot
drink it on earth.
You: Jews are Abrahamic Monotheists who rejected Jesus and
John - lost the Kingdom of God Muslims are Abrahamic Monotheist who LOVE Jesus
and John - inherited the Kingdom of God and Temple Mount
Me: Jesus gave plain rules on how to love him, Muslims do
not do this, Jesus said you must “keep MY commandments”(John 14:15) and His
commandments are not to follow future false prophets, not to divorce and
remarry, that drinking wine is not a sin, that He is to be HONORED EQUAL to the
FATHER. When preaching about loving him,
he also says “the prince of this world….has NO power over me.” Meaning the
Devil, who you believe to be Muhammad, is certainly inferior to Jesus. Again,
if you loved Jesus, Jesus said He and the Father will DWELL inside you, “If any
one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him,
and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him."—John 14:23
You: Christians don’t count as they don’t even know what
Abrahamic Monotheism is and the meaning of the first commandment.
Me: Jesus is God, otherwise, he is a false prophet, since He
describes himself in ways only God can, then expects the same Honor God gets.
Either way, Islam is wrong.
you: “‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’” - Matthew 21:42 The Ishmaelites and other gentiles have now become the ‘cornerstone’ and chosen nation over the Israelites after their rejection of Jesus and John “‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; The Holy Kaba has become the cornerstone and has now overtaken Jerusalem and become the most visited temple dedicated to the God of Abraham in history and the greatest prayer direction in human history
you: “‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’” - Matthew 21:42 The Ishmaelites and other gentiles have now become the ‘cornerstone’ and chosen nation over the Israelites after their rejection of Jesus and John “‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; The Holy Kaba has become the cornerstone and has now overtaken Jerusalem and become the most visited temple dedicated to the God of Abraham in history and the greatest prayer direction in human history
Me: Matthew 21:42 was fulfilled in Jesus’ own time, he and
those in Him are stone. Furthermore, I
see no evidence from the Bible that Ishmaelites are Arabs. There was some
intermixing, but Arabs pre-existed Abraham, since Jews believe some of those tribes
listed in Genesis 15 are actually Arab.
This Scripture of the stone being rejected is frequently cited in the
New Testament about Jesus, none of us think it’s literally talking about an
actual stone. Jesus established Christianity then and there. We don’t obsess over praying to a certain
city. We just prefer praying facing East
since we expect Christ to return in that direction and that Is on of His
titles. The kaba is just a rock, who cares. Abraham didn’t go that far south,
he sacrifice in what is now Israel, and afterwards he stayed in Beer-sheba
which is just south of Palestinian territory.
You: . ‘Satan’ doesn’t come and preach Abrahamic Monotheism
and oppose and fight and eradicate idolatry and bring an entire pagan nation to
Old Testament 1st commandment Monotheism like Muhammad did.
Me: Satan will trick a man into think God has 3 daughters—the
exalted cranes. Satan will convince a man that marrying a child is ok. Satan
will convince a man that he can permit what Jesus forbade as sin. Satan can
permit a prophet to give permission to rape married women. Satan will tell men
you can have lots of sex in heaven. Satan will tell you Jews and Christians
corrupted the Scriptures (a lie Muhammad did not even claim in the Sunnas!)
Satan will tell you the man you believe is a prophet has the title “prince of
the world” since that is also Satan’s own title. Satan will create rival
religions to try to destroy the true, older religion. Satan will mix lies with
true. Satan will tell people Muhammad is greater than Jesus despite Jesus being
WAY more holy.
