Answering Muslim in Comments

I received a year ago comments from a Muslim with the username Kemo 2002 on YouTube in response to my video on whether Muhammed is mentioned in Songs of Solomon. Since I neglected to address his comment at the time, I feel I should address it here. In his comments its evidence, like most Muslims, he does not know what the Trinity is, nor does he seem aware Islam has Allah praying to himself.

Here is a screen shot of the comment I will be addressing

In the following I will repost his comments in a more readable format with my added responses.

Kemo 2002: Ha...Would u even bear  to hear that a perfect being gets crucified and naked and rotten on a crucifix?!
Ohh how dumb u are  to think like that he wasnt killed nor crucified.. But Allah the Almight and only one god lifted him in a way we dont know maybe the one who was crucified looked like him but only Allah knows  best.

Me: What is preventing  perfect human being from being executed? Many prophets were killed. In Islam Muhammad slowly died from poison meat. How is this even a point to make? Christ in the gospel says He LAID DOWN HIS LIFE WILLINGLY (John 10:18). He could have avoided death. There is a debate whether the Quran really says Jesus was not crucified since some Muslims insist the Quran is not denying this, but denying God's word could be killed. If Jesus avoided crucifixion it would make him a false messiah and a false prophets since the Scriptures in Isaiah 53, Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 22, etc predicted He would be crucified and would raise up. Jesus himself spoke about how he would die at the hands of the Jewish authorities and Romans. Furthermore, why would Jesus need a replacement if He would simply be taken up to Heaven. Its not like the Romans would go to heaven and take him back to be crucified. If Allah knew best, why would be needlessly haves Jesus' disciple be killed in Jesus' place?

Kemo: And if u said that we are terrorists think again isis(Muslim killers pretending  to be muslims.) is made by the cia to make corruption and temptation among muslims and especially so non muslims reject the truth..If u believe we are terrorists then ur brainwashed because theyre is no where in the Quran says go strap ur self with explosive and blow ur self up but the  opposite if u commit  suicide ur going to hellfire. If u have any questions or would u like to debate in depth my instagram is:K4mo0o

Me: Instagram is a very poor media for debate. Why cannot you accept they are Muslim, what evidence do you have they are run by the CIA, why would the USA help destroy them? Why does Islam rely on many conspiracy theories?

Kemo: 1.) The Bible says that Jesus prayed. If Jesus is God, he would simply be praying/talking to himself...

Me: First, the Quran says Allah prays to himself, though most English translations deliberately try to obscure this by saying salloo means "bless":

He it is who prays (yusallee) for you and His angels too, to bring you forth out of the darkness into the light, for He is merciful to the believers. S. 33:43 Palmer 

Verily, God and His angels pray (yusalloona) for the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him (salloo) and salute him with a salutation! S. 33:56 Palmer

In fact, this is what SAW means when Muhammed's name is mentioned. So how can you find an issue with "God praying to himself"?

Furthermore, Jesus is not praying to himself. Jesus is both God and a man. As a man, Jesus prayed, worshipped, got hungry, thirsty, tired, bleed, cried, and so on. How Islam makes sense of Allah praying to Himself, I have no idea. The Divine aspects of Jesus are mentioned at times in the Quran, like the passages alluding to Jesus creating a bird from clay and breathing into it.

Kemo: 2.) It says God had to turn his back on Jesus, when he took on the sins of the world. (So he somehow turned his back on himself?)

Me: This is a Protestant claim, I am Catholic and do not make this statement, since as you point out, it seems contradictory. A Protestant would explain this as the Trinity, three separate persons, the Father turns his back on the Son. However, logically, a Christian cannot hold this view either since it would mean there is separation and disunity in the Trinity, imply a temporary fracture in God's oneness, or Jesus being split into two. The view Jesus is separated from the Father is based on an interpretation of the verse where Jesus cries out--quoting Psalm 22, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?". The Catholic view is Jesus is quoting the Psalm, and by his death, suffering the fate like a sinful criminal would, can express the sentiment of a sinner worthy of death. The abandoning is simply God's permission for Jesus to be crucified by the hands of wicked men. Christ Himself said He died willingly for His sheep, however, as a man, he desired it occur through other means that would not have His people bear more guilt for killing their King. In the Catholic view, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all on the same page, as they must be as they all possess the same will, though Christ has two wills--a divine will that is the Father's will, and a human will that He acquired when he was conceived (John 1:14 "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us").

Kemo: 3.) Jesus was asked when the end of the world would be and his response was roughly, “I do not know, only my Father in Heaven knows”. If Jesus is God, he was then lying to the man who asked the question. The trinity is one of the “doctrines if demons” that the Bible warns about.

Me: St Paul was the one that spoke against the "doctrine of demons." Are you now admitting St Paul was a true apostle? I have a video on Matthew 24:36/Mark 13:32. Jesus in this passage is saying the Father is the source of this knowledge, the fact Jesus describes the event in detail and says He will appears riding a cloud (an allusion to Him being God in Daniel 7) shows He is in control. Elsewhere, Jesus says only God is good, He was not deny others can be good, but rather that God is the original of this. Jesus in Acts 1:6-7 when asked a related question by the Apostles, tells us that events ordained by the Father are not for humans to know. Elsewhere, like John 21 the Apostles Peter tells Christ, "you know all things!."

Kemo said:

Muslim : Who is God?  

Christian : Jesus   

ME: The FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT.

Kemo:

Muslim : Is Jesus the son of Mary.  

Christian : Yes  

Muslim : Who created Mary?  

Christian : God.  

Muslim : Who is God?  

Christian: Jesus 

ME: The FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT. 

Kemo:

Muslim : Jesus is the begotten son.  

Christian : Yes  

Muslim : Who is his father?  

Christian : God.  

Me: The Father is a specific person in the Trinity that is the head and source of the Trinity, He Is unbegotten. The Son did not beget Himself, rather He is eternally begotten of His Father.

Kemo:

Muslim : Who is God? 

Christian : Jesus.  

Me: The FATHER, SON, and Holy Spirit are God.

Kemo:

Muslim : Jesus is a servant of God.  

Christian : Yes  

Me: Jesus as a man is the servant of God, since He took form of a servant according to Philippians 2:7, which you have previously acknowledged that St Paul is a legitimate writer and Apostle of Jesus.

Kemo:

Muslim : Jesus died on the cross?  

Christian : Yes  

Muslim : Who resurrected him?  

Christian : God.

Me: According to Jesus himself in John 2, He would resurrect HIMSELF, why not? He resurrected other people which Islam acknowledges, and He could create as the Quran acknowledges with the clay birds. The New Testament says the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were all involved in the resurrection of Jesus, because they are one God and do not operate as separate beings with separate wills, rather they have One will, not 3 united wills.

Kemo:

Muslim : Is Jesus a messenger. 

Christian : Yes  

Muslim : Who sent him?  

Christian : God.  

Muslim : Who is God?  

Christian : Jesus.  

Me: Jesus was sent by the Father, it was the Father's will for the Word of God to become a human. It must also be noted, we believe that the will of God the Son is the same will as the Father, its just that the will's origin is the Father. The doctrine you seem to be refuting is a non-trinitarian doctrine called modalism which technically is like the Unitarianism that Islam believes in, however it says God appears in three forms: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but are really just the same exact person.

Kemo:

Muslim: Did Jesus worship while on earth.  

Christian: Yes  

Muslim: Whom did he worship?  

Christian: God.  

Muslim : Who is God?  

Christian : Jesus.

Me: Jesus is both God and man. As a man, to be a perfect example for us, took on a human nature and led by example of how to pray, be righteous, and be a servant for humanity by preaching to it, healing, forgiving sins, resurrecting people, and dying for their sins. Muhammed's examples are an example of how NOT to be as divorce, lusting and taking your adopted sons wife, a grown mad lusting after a pre-pubescent girl, sex slavery, and raping married women in front of their husbands are examples of wickedness, deserving of great damnation in eternal Hell fire.

Kemo:

Muslim : Did God have a beginning?  

Christian : No  

Muslim: Then who was born on 25/DEC?  

Christian : Jesus.  

Muslim : Is Jesus God.  

Christian : Yes

Me: God has no beginning. Jesus' human beginning was March 25 over 2000 years ago. Jesus pre-existed as God. The Son of God has two births, one of His Father eternally, and one of the Virgin Mary at one time and place 2000 years ago. When Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, God experienced birth, though in Divinity was not born of Mary.

Kemo:

Muslim : Where's God?  

Christian : In heaven.

Me: A real Christian would say everywhere. Many Muslims believe God is ONLY in the highest heaven above His Throne. Christians believe that while Heaven is a sort of "home" of God, He being God is everywhere, in fact this way of describing it is misleading it implies God comes to an occupies space, when in reality, space was permitted to occupy along side with God a location. God does not simply occupy the universe, the universe is contained WITHIN God, since He is much greater than the universe.

Kemo:

Muslim : How many Gods are there in heaven?  

Christian : Only one God.  

Muslim : Where's Jesus?  

Christian : He is seated on the right hand of his father. 

Me: We say He is seated at the right hand of the Father. This is more of a description of His relationship, not a physical reality, since we do not believe the Father has a body in anyway, whereas Allah does.

Kemo:

Muslim : Then how many are they in heaven?  

Christian : Only one God.  

Muslim : Then how many seats? 

Christian : one  

Muslim : where's Jesus?  

Christian: Seated next to God.  

Muslim : How are they seated on one chair?  

Christian : Its only understood by those with the Ghost. You need Ghost my friend

Me:  Its likely there is no actual throne, however, if there is Christ would be seated on it since He is part of the Trinity that has a bodily form. The book of Revelation, written by the Apostle John, describes heaven as having a throne where Christ being called "the lamb" is seated with the Father. The book is highly metaphorical, and like much of the Bible to explain to human, describes spiritual things in physical terms, much like Daniel 7, Exodus 33 and Isaiah 6 did when they said they "saw God." Since the Father and Holy Spirit have no actual physical body, there is no need for an actual throne, furthermore, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are omnipresent. They are even present in Hell, since Hell itself exists within God. In Hell man is eternally deprived of the full extent of God's mercy since they already rejected it.

You speak of the "ghost" a term we Christians rarely use anymore to describe the "Holy Spirit" which Muslims believe is the angel Gabriel, a person that claimed to talk frequently with this "ghost" that choked him demanding him to read. Some Christians believe there is a type of violent ghost called a "polstergeist" which Muhammed may very well have encountered and presented itself as an angel of God, though in reality being from Hell. St Paul, a man you seem to think of as worthy of being cited as being a legitimate writer of the Bible, said Satan can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). St Paul further warned of being deceived by a man, or a so called "an angel of heaven" preaching another gospel (Galatians 1:8). Muhammad promoted the false gnostic gospels, and denied doctrines the real gospel teaches.

Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit

We know Jesus is not the Holy Spirit because:

"Filled with the Holy Spirit, Jesus returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the desert"-Luke 4:1

If the Holy Spirit is Jesus, why does this verse mention the Spirit filled Him?  Did Jesus fill Himself?

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.--John 14:16-17

 Why does Jesus speak of having the Father sending ANOTHER if Jesus IS the Holy Spirit?

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit--Matthew 28:19

If Jesus IS the Holy Spirit, why does He mention It separately in such a way? As if the verse said, "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Son."

I Jesus have sent my angel, to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and stock of David, the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say: Come. And he that heareth, let him say: Come. And he that thirsteth, let him come: and he that will, let him take the water of life, freely.-Revelation 22:16-17

IF Jesus is the Spirit, why does Jesus speak, then it goes on to say the Spirit speaks?

Was God the Son separated from God the Father are Calvary?

Recently, a few people has told me and others on Paltalk that during the Cross Christ was "separated from the Father."  One person that said this was an antiCatholic who is a Calvinist, another was a young man that left the Church believing himself to be more Catholic than the pope (he stated Christ's separation was purely in His humanity, not Divinity), another was an anti/ex-Catholic who received education at a Protestant 'bible college.'.

People that promote this theory use many scriptures as proof texts.  They include the Scripture at Calvary where Christ says "why have you forsaken me," the passage in 1st Corinthians where St Paul declares Christ became sin for us, and other passages which state Christ "bore" our sins, and the verse in Isaiah 53 where it speaks of the suffering Servant as being "cut off"

As a note the verse about being forsaken is a quotation of Psalm 22 and Christ is expressing the words of sinners, perhaps the best explanation for this is found by St Augustine of Hippo:

"...the first verse of which the Lord Himself uttered on the Cross: "My God, My God, look upon Me; why have You forsaken Me?" For "transferring us in a figure" [1 Corinthians 4:6] to what He was saying, and to His own Body (for we are also "His Body," and He is our "Head"), He uttered from the Cross not His own cry, but ours. For God never "forsook" Him: nor did He Himself ever depart from the Father; but it was in behalf of us that He spoke this: "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" For there follows, "Far from My health are the words of My offences:" and it shows in whose person He said this; for sin could not be found in Him.…"--Exposition on Psalm 44

I will deal with the other Scripture verses at a later time.

The main reason the view Christ was separated from the Father is not a viable view if for it's incompatiblity with Trinity theology and the hypostatic union.

For Christ to be separated from the Father would require either Arianism (even temporary) or some form of temporary polytheism.  For Christ being God to be separated from God the Father would mean there was some form of fracture in the Trinity.  The Trinity is a profession that God is one substance in the Persons that are united.  Many Protestants like to assert that Deuteronomy 6:4 (Hear of Israel....the Lord is One) word echad (one) refers to a compound unity.  Now if God is a compound unity, then how can God the Son be separated from God the Father and still be One God, that is a compound unity?  The answer is plain, it cannot be the case. God cannot be separated from Himself, it would be illogical in anyway.  One of the individuals told me it only seems illogical, like when God became a man.  However, God becoming a man is not illogical because God the Son did not lose His form as God by assuming a human nature, John 3:13 tells us He was in Heaven while being on Earth.  While the theory Christ was separted from the Father is absolutely illogical since it violates the profession of God being One, a 'compound unity.' 

Now for the belief that Jesus Christ was only separated from the Father in His human nature alone.  This view is less illogical and less blasphemous at the first, but it is still a great error to claim since it would split the Person of Christ into two and undue the incarnation.  If He is fully God and man united in one person, Jesus Christ, that is the hypostatic union, then the Atonement would require Him to be separated from Himself, requiring Him possibly to be present solely in His Human nature at the Cross. This person that pushed this theory (the sedevacantist) eventually seemed to admit he did not know much theology (which begs then "how are you a sedevacantist if you don't know much theology" since sedevacantists insist the Church has fallen into heresy, but perhaps he IS a sedevacantist BECAUSE he does not know much theology, but this is the subject of another article.)

In experience I have only met one person (a Protestant) that acknowledged the difficulty in believing Jesus was separated from God the Father at the Cross who accepted it. He said told me in rougly these words "Yes the Trinity was broken up at the Cross!"

To be Continued....