Showing posts with label mary. Show all posts
Showing posts with label mary. Show all posts

Friday, February 21, 2014

Name of Mary: Exalted Lifted up

The name Mary in Hebrew Miriam is spelled identical to two other words in the Hebrew bible "bitter ones" and "exalted" (from the word רום , rum meaning lifted up as in Deuteronomy 17:20) the Syrian Christians have favored the latter explanation.. Some have also proposed it means "rebel" (from root meri, מרי meaning "rebellion" as in Numbers 17:25))  rebel and bitter maybe linked since they represent the resentment the Hebrews felt under Egyptian bondage. Bitter herbs were used to represent slavery in Exodus 12's Passover meal. Perhaps if "bitter"/ "rebel" is the meaning she rebelled against those of her time by being obedient to the Law of God, and certainly she rebelled by not letting her son be killed by King Herod!, or perhaps this could be one of those time where Hebrew words sometimes mean the opposite of their primary meaning (many examples in the Hebrew bible exist like "bless/curse" God and die" in Job 2:9, or רנן which means joy in Psalm 132:16 and moan/cry in Lamentations 2:19 ), in which case "rebel" would mean something along the lines of "obedient" "loyal one" or "servant"--the latter the Virgin calls herself when says she is the "handmaid." The Miriam in the Torah seems to be called Miriam from the word "bitter," because we do not see her named until Exodus 15 where the word bitter is used. Exalted seems more reasonable for Mary of the New Testament, it would perhaps fit in with why the Angel Gabriel said "blessed are you among women"--that is she is exalted among women, and be an allusion to her assumption into Heaven. A popular explanation--stella mar [star of the sea] among Latins was popularized by a misreading of St Jerome "stilla maris" which means "drop of the sea." St Jerome took Miriam as being from mar, מר "drop" [only used in Isaiah 40:15 as k'mar, כְּמַר--"as a drop"] and yam, יָם meaning "sea" as in Genesis 14:13 where the "Salt Sea" is referenced.  מר , mar can also mean myrrh as in Exodus 30:23.  Mar in Aramaic is the word for "lord" as in Daniel 4:19  (v16 in some texts), where mari,  מָרִאי or מָרִי is used, "lady"/"mistress" (mistress in the older usage meaning a respectable woman, not the modern expression for a home-wrecker) would probably be a similar word, though never used in any Aramaic biblical text, but is used in the "Jerusalem" Talmud (Sanhedrin 23) in the form מרתה, marta (similar to Martha, like the name in the New Testament).

First for the Hebrew name of Mary we look at Exodus, where Moses' sister Miriam is named:
And Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם] the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.--Exodus 15:20
The spelling מרים (no vowels, with no vav, lammed, etc prefixes) appears 16 times in the Hebrew Bible (not including the 'Deuterocanonicals') in 14 verses. The name Miriam in any form appears 15 times in 13 verses (with and without the vav, lammed 'prefix'). There are 3 meaning its translated as Miriam, bitter ones, and exalted. Here are the appearances of the spelling מרים (no vowels, with no vav, lammed, etc prefixes) in red, underlined are words that are similar or have the some root:
And Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם] the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.  And Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם]  sang unto them: Sing ye to the LORD, for He is highly exalted: the horse and his rider hath He thrown into the sea.--Exodus 15:20-21
And when they came to Marah [Maratah, מָרָתָה]  , they could not drink of the waters of Marah [מִמָּרָה, mimmarah] for they were bitter [mirim, מָרִים]. Therefore the name of it was called Marah [marah, מָרָה ].--Exodus 15:23
every one lifting up [mérim, מֵרִים] a heave-offering [t'rumatתְּרוּמַת] of silver and brass have brought in the heave-offering [t'rumatתְּרוּמַת] of the LORD; and every one with whom hath been found shittim wood for any work of the service brought it in.--Exodus 35:24 Young's Literal Translation (most translations do not literally translate it as "lifting up", also I removed the 'J name')
And Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם] and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman whom he had married; for he had married a Cushite woman......And the LORD spoke suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם]: 'Come out ye three unto the tent of meeting.' And they three came out.....And when the cloud was removed from over the Tent, behold, Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם] was leprous, as white as snow; and Aaron looked upon Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם]; and, behold, she was leprous.....And Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם] was shut up without the camp seven days; and the people journeyed not till Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם] was brought in again.--Numbers 12:1, 4, 10, 14
And the children of Israel, even the whole congregation, came into the wilderness of Zin in the first month; and the people abode in Kadesh; and Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם] died there, and was buried there.--Numbers 20:1
 And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, who was born to Levi in Egypt; and she bore unto Amram Aaron and Moses, and Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם]  their sister.--Numbers 26:59
And the sons of Ezrah: Jether, and Mered, and Epher, and Jalon. And she bore Miriam [Miryam, מִרְיָם], and Shammai, and Ishbah the father of Eshtemoa----1 Chronicles 4:17
The wise shall inherit honour; but as for the fools, they carry away [mérim, מֵרִים]  shame.--Proverbs 3:35
He that is slow to anger is of great understanding; but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth [mérim, מֵרִים] folly.--Proverbs 14:29
and because of the greatness that He gave him, all the peoples, nations, and languages trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew, and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he raised up [marim, מָרִים] , and whom he would he put down.--Daniel 5:19 (Aramaic text not Hebrew)
For evidence in the New Testament on why Mary's name should be interpreted as "exalted" or "lifted up" we go to Luke 1:
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly--Luke 1:52
We see here she refers to the lowly being "lifted up", this is related to Mary herself because she a few verses prior she calls herself "lowly":
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.--Luke 1:48
Now, going back to Luke 1:52 in red I highlighted lifted up because in the Aramaic Texts of Luke 1:51 in both the Old Syriac and the Peshitta text (both of which predate the 6th century at least) the word here is
ܣܲܚܸܦܼ ܬܿܲܩܼܝܦܼܸܐ̈ ܡܸܢ ܟܿܘܼܪܣܲܘܵܬܼܵܐ̈܂ ܘܲܐܪܼܝܡ   ܡܲܟܼܿܝܟܼܸܐ̈܂ --Luke 1:52 Peshitta Text
 He has put down the mighty from their seats, and he has lifted up the meek--Luke 1:52 Lamsa
ܘܐܢܚܬ ܬܩܝܦܐ ܡܢ ܟܘܪܣܘܬܗܘܢ ܘܐܪܝܡ   ܡܟܝܟܐ--Luke 1:52 Old Syriac Syriac Sinaiticus (4th century manuscript)
 And he has brought the mighty down from their seats and exalted the lowly--Luke 1:52 from The Old Syriac Gospels: Luke and John, Old Syriac Syriac Sinaiticus

  The red word ܘܐܪܝܡ waruym (I am not sure if I have the vowels correct), the spelling I do know is waw-alap-resh-yod-meem

 For more information see Catholic Encyclopedia "Name of Mary"

ADDENDUM:

Here is an example of a Syrian Christian that insisted the name of Mary means "exalted"

And Dinah his wife conceived, and brought forth Mary; and from that day she was called Hannah (Anna) instead of Dinah, for the Lord had had compassion upon her. Now the name 'Mary' (Maryam or Miriam) is interpreted 'lifted up,' 'exalted;' and they rejoiced in her exceedingly--Book of the Bee, Chapter 34, Solomon of Aklat, Nestorian Bishop of Basra, AD 1222

Monday, September 2, 2013

St John Chrysostom on Matthew 1:25

St John Chrysostom, the (Byzantine) Patriarch of Constantinople, created his homilies in the mid-to-late 4th century--only about 200 years after the time the Gospel according to Matthew was penned.  St John Chrysostom, like St Matthew, both were fluent in Greek. St John Chrysostom did not believe the usage of the word "until"--εως ου in Matthew 1:25 was proof that Mary and Joseph had sex. St John uses several example of εως being used where an action does not cease but continues after the εως, in a few  of his examples both εως and ου are used.

Here is St John Chrysostom's Homily V on the gospel of Matthew 1:25, commenting on εως ου:

"And when he had taken her, he knew her not, till she had brought forth her first-born Son.' He hath here used the word till,' not that thou shouldest suspect that afterwards he did know her, but to inform thee that before the birth the Virgin was wholly untouched by man. But why then, it may be said, hath he used the word, till'? Because it is usual in Scripture often to do this, and to use this expression without reference to limited times. For so with respect to the ark likewise, it is said, The raven returned not till the earth was dried up.' And yet it did not return even after that time. And when discoursing also of God, the Scripture saith, From age until age Thou art,' not as fixing limits in this case. And again when it is preaching the Gospel beforehand, and saying, In his days shall righteousness flourish, and abundance of peace, till the moon be taken away,' it doth not set a limit to this fair part of creation. So then here likewise, it uses the word "till," to make certain what was before the birth, but as to what follows, it leaves thee to make the inference. Thus, what it was necessary for thee to learn of Him, this He Himself hath said; that the Virgin was untouched by man until the birth; but that which both was seen to be a consequence of the former statement, and was acknowledged, this in its turn he leaves for thee to perceive; namely, that not even after this, she having so become a mother, and having been counted worthy of a new sort of travail, and a child-bearing so strange, could that righteous man ever have endured to know her. For if he had known her, and had kept her in the place of a wife, how is it that our Lord commits her, as unprotected, and having no one, to His disciple, and commands him to take her to his own home? How then, one may say, are James and the others called His brethren? In the same kind of way as Joseph himself was supposed to be husband of Mary. For many were the veils provided, that the birth, being such as it was, might be for a time screened. Wherefore even John so called them, saying, For neither did His brethren believe in Him.' "--John Chrysostom, Gospel of Matthew,V:5 (A.D. 370),in NPNF1,X:33 for Greek text go here
Let's look at the proof texts St John Chrysostom uses:
The raven returned not till the earth was dried up.'--Genesis 8:7
His usage of this verse seems to be a paraphrase, or based on a version of the LXX that I do not have access to. This quotation does use εως ου, the LXX version I have only have εως, in any case how St John uses it in a sentence shows its possible to use.

This other text is Psalm 89:2 in the LXX (which is Psalm 90:2 elsewhere), it reads:
From age until [ἕως] age Thou art--Psalm 89:2 LXX 
ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ--Psalm 89:2 LXX
Unlike, the first text from Genesis 8:7, this one is an exact quote. The Psalm does not use ἕως ου, but simply ἕως, showing St John felt demonstrating ἕως by itself was sufficient to show the meaning.

His third text is:
In his days shall righteousness flourish, and abundance of peace, till [ἕως οὗ] the moon be taken away—Psalm 71:7 LXX (Psalm 72 in the most bibles)

 ἀνατελεῖ ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις αὐτοῦ δικαιοσύνη καὶ πλῆθος εἰρήνης ἕως οὗ ἀνταναιρεθῇ ἡ σελήνη --Psalm 71:7 LXX
This text is also a verbatim quote of the Septuagint. However, unlike the last two quotes, this one does contains the phrase ἕως οὗ.  Obviously, the Psalmist did not intend to say that righteous and peace will cease once the moons goes away!

Saturday, August 31, 2013

Heos Hou appearances (until)

Based on the debate of Matthew 1:25 and as to whether or not it teaches Mary and Joseph had sex after the birth of Christ, I compiled a list of times the Greek phrase εως ου occurs in the LXX and Greek New Testament. I still have not finished the LXX part of it, but I am pretty sure I did get all the NT(unless I missed a few variants).  The phrase εως ου appears in the translations as "until" or "til" or otherwise, it will be surrounded by ** (typically translated as "before" or "while"). The translations will be from the NAB, unless its stated as the KJV, the other translation used is the NET for all the translations of the LXX. From this the reader can decide for himself if the usage of "εως ου " is actually proof that Joseph and Mary had sex after the birth of the Lord, I think the evidence demonstrates you cannot prove it from the phrase. 

He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.--Matthew 1:25

καὶ οὐκ ἐγίνωσκεν αὐτὴν ἕως οὗ ἔτεκεν υἱόν· καὶ ἐκάλεσεν τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν.--Matthew 1:25

When day came, the Jews made a plot and bound themselves by oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul.--Acts 23:12

Γενομένης δὲ ἡμέρας ποιήσαντες συστροφὴν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι ἀνεθεμάτισαν ἑαυτοὺς λέγοντες μήτε φαγεῖν μήτε πιεῖν ἕως οὗ ἀποκτείνωσιν τὸν Παῦλον.--Acts 23:12

As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, "Do not tell the vision to anyone until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."--Matthew 17:9

Καὶ καταβαινόντων αὐτῶν ἐκ τοῦ ὄρους ἐνετείλατο αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς λέγων· Μηδενὶ εἴπητε τὸ ὅραμα ἕως οὗ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐγερθῇ. --Matthew 17:9

for I tell you (that) from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."--Luke 22:18

λέγω γὰρ ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ πίω ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν ἀπὸ τοῦ γενήματος τῆς ἀμπέλου ἕως οὗ ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἔλθῃ.--Luke 22:18

But he refused. Instead, he had him put in prison until he paid back the debt.--Matthew 18:30, found in Byzantine majority

ο δε ουκ ηθελεν αλλα αλλ απελθων εβαλεν αυτον εις φυλακην εως ου αποδω το οφειλομενον--Matthew 18:30 (Byzantine majority and TRs)

Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt--Matthew 18:34

και οργισθεις ο κυριος αυτου παρεδωκεν αυτον τοις βασανισταις εως [ου] αποδω παν το οφειλομενον αὐτῷ--Matthew 18:34

It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed (in) with three measures of wheat flour until the whole batch of dough was leavened."--Luke 13:21

ὁμοία ἐστὶν ζύμῃ, ἣν λαβοῦσα γυνὴ ἔκρυψεν εἰς ἀλεύρου σάτα τρία ἕως οὗ ἐζυμώθη ὅλον.--Luke 13:21

He spoke to them another parable. "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of wheat flour until the whole batch was leavened."--Matthew 13:33

Ἄλλην παραβολὴν ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς· Ὁμοία ἐστὶν ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν ζύμῃ, ἣν λαβοῦσα γυνὴ ἐνέκρυψεν εἰς ἀλεύρου σάτα τρία ἕως οὗ ἐζυμώθη ὅλον.--Matthew 13:33

and he said to his disciples, "Sit here *while* I go over there and pray."--Matthew 26:36 (most texts have heos ho)

Τότε ἔρχεται μετ' αὐτῶν ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἰς χωρίον λεγόμενον Γεθσημανὶ, καὶ λέγει τοῖς μαθηταῖς· Καθίσατε αὐτοῦ ἕως οὗ ἀπελθὼν ἐκεῖ προσεύξωμαι.--Matthew 26:36

Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.--Acts 21:26 (KJV)

τότε ὁ Παῦλος παραλαβὼν τοὺς ἄνδρας τῇ ἐχομένῃ ἡμέρᾳ σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁγνισθεὶς εἰσῄει εἰς τὸ ἱερόν, διαγγέλλων τὴν ἐκπλήρωσιν τῶν ἡμερῶν τοῦ ἁγνισμοῦ ἕως οὗ προσηνέχθη ὑπὲρ ἑνὸς ἑκάστου αὐτῶν ἡ προσφορά.--Acts 21:26

And when Paul appealed that he be held in custody for the Emperor's decision, I ordered him held until I could send him to Caesar."--Acts 25:21

τοῦ δὲ Παύλου ἐπικαλεσαμένου τηρηθῆναι αὐτὸν εἰς τὴν τοῦ Σεβαστοῦ διάγνωσιν, ἐκέλευσα τηρεῖσθαι αὐτὸν ἕως οὗ ἀναπέμψω αὐτὸν πρὸς Καίσαρα.--Acts 25:21

"Or what woman having ten coins and losing one would not light a lamp and sweep the house, searching carefully until she finds it?"--Luke 15:8

Ἢ τίς γυνὴ δραχμὰς ἔχουσα δέκα, ἐὰν ἀπολέσῃ δραχμὴν μίαν, οὐχὶ ἅπτει λύχνον καὶ σαροῖ τὴν οἰκίαν καὶ ζητεῖ ἐπιμελῶς ἕως οὗ εὕρῃ;--Luke 15:8

Then he made the disciples get into the boat and precede him to the other side, *while* he dismissed the crowds.--Matthew 14:22

Καὶ εὐθέως ἠνάγκασεν τοὺς μαθητὰς ἐμβῆναι εἰς πλοῖον καὶ προάγειν αὐτὸν εἰς τὸ πέραν, ἕως οὗ ἀπολύσῃ τοὺς ὄχλους. --Matthew 14:22

And (behold) I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."--Luke 24:49

καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ πατρός μου ἐφ' ὑμᾶς· ὑμεῖς δὲ καθίσατε ἐν τῇ πόλει ἕως οὗ ἐνδύσησθε ἐξ ὕψους δύναμιν.--Luke 24:49

Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.--John 13:38

 ἀποκρίνεται Ἰησοῦς· Τὴν ψυχήν σου ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ θήσεις; ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, οὐ μὴ ἀλέκτωρ φωνήσῃ ἕως οὗ ἀρνήσῃ με τρίς.--John 13:38

Moreover, we possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.--2 Peter 1:19

καὶ ἔχομεν βεβαιότερον τὸν προφητικὸν λόγον, ᾧ καλῶς ποιεῖτε προσέχοντες ὡς λύχνῳ φαίνοντι ἐν αὐχμηρῶ τόπῳ, ἕως οὖ ἡμέρα διαυγάσῃ καὶ φωσφόρος ἀνατείλῃ ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν·--2 Peter 1:19


Old Testament Greek Septuagint instances:

Then Nabouchodonosor was filled with anger, and the appearance of his face was distorted against Sedrach, Misach, Abdenago. And he said that the furnace should be stoked up sevenfold until it would be heated completely.-- Daniel 3:19 LXX (Theodotion version)

τότε Ναβουχοδονοσορ ἐπλήσθη θυμοῦ καὶ ἡ ὄψις τοῦ προσώπου αὐτοῦ ἠλλοιώθη ἐπὶ Σεδραχ Μισαχ καὶ Αβδεναγω καὶ εἶπεν ἐκκαῦσαι τὴν κάμινον ἑπταπλασίως ἕως οὗ εἰς τέλος ἐκκαῇ--Daniel 3:19 LXX Theodotion

even until the commander in chief delivers the captives. And sacrifice was overthrown on account of it. And it emerged, and things were prosperous for it, and the sanctuary will be desolated.—Daniel 8:11 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ἕως οὗ ὁ ἀρχιστράτηγος ῥύσηται τὴν αἰχμαλωσίαν καὶ δι᾽ αὐτὸν θυσία ἐρράχθη καὶ ἐγενήθη καὶ κατευοδώθη αὐτῷ καὶ τὸ ἅγιον ἐρημωθήσεται --Daniel 8:11 LXX (Theodotion)

But fifty [forty in other texts] days did not pass *before* two of his sons killed him, and they fled into the mountains of Ararat. Then Sacherdonos his son became king in place of him. And he appointed Achiacharos son of Hanael my brother over all the accounts of his kingdom and over all the administration.--Tobit 1:21 in both versions of the LXX ἕως οὗ is used

καὶ οὐ διῆλθον ἡμέραι τεσσαράκοντα ἕως οὗ ἀπέκτειναν αὐτὸν οἱ δύο υἱοὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὰ ὄρη Αραρατ καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν Σαχερδονος υἱὸς αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ αὐτόν καὶ ἔταξεν Αχιχαρον τὸν Αναηλ τὸν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ μου υἱὸν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν ἐκλογιστίαν τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ καὶ αὐτὸς εἶχεν τὴν ἐξουσίαν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν διοίκησιν --Tobit 1:21 LXX Tobit S

καὶ οὐ διῆλθον ἡμέραι πεντήκοντα ἕως οὗ ἀπέκτειναν αὐτὸν οἱ δύο υἱοὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὰ ὄρη Αραρατ καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν Σαχερδονος ὁ υἱὸς αὐτοῦ ἀντ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔταξεν Αχιαχαρον τὸν Αναηλ υἱὸν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ μου ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν ἐκλογιστίαν τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν διοίκησιν--Tobit 1:21 LXX Tobit BA

*Before* the sun and the light and the moon and the stars are darkened and the clouds return after the rain--Ecclesiastes 12:2 LXX

ἕως οὗ μὴ σκοτισθῇ ὁ ἥλιος καὶ τὸ φῶς καὶ ἡ σελήνη καὶ οἱ ἀστέρες καὶ ἐπιστρέψωσιν τὰ νέφη ὀπίσω τοῦ ὑετοῦ--Ecclesiates 12:2 LXX

Bring my soul out of prison so that I may acknowledge your name [O Lord]. Righteous ones will wait for me until you requite me.--Psalm 141:8 LXX (142:7 in Hebrew based numberings)

ἐξάγαγε ἐκ φυλακῆς τὴν ψυχήν μου τοῦ ἐξομολογήσασθαι τῷ ὀνόματί σου κύριε ἐμὲ ὑπομενοῦσιν δίκαιοι ἕως οὗ ἀνταποδῷς μοι--Psalm 141:8 LXX (142:7 in Hebrew based numberings)

Until the day breathes and the shadows stir, I will go on my own to the mountain of myrrh and to the hill of frankincense [or Lebanon]--Songs of Solomon 4:6 LXX

ἕως οὗ διαπνεύσῃ ἡ ἡμέρα καὶ κινηθῶσιν αἱ σκιαί πορεύσομαι ἐμαυτῷ πρὸς τὸ ὄρος τῆς σμύρνης καὶ πρὸς τὸν βουνὸν τοῦ Λιβάνου--Songs of Solomon 4:6 LXX

And the days which we had gone alongside, from Kades Barne until we passed along the ravine of Zared were thirty-eight years, until the entire generation of the men, warriors, of the camp had fallen away, as the Lord had sworn to them. And the hand of God was against them, to eliminate them from the camp, until they fell away.—Deuteronomy 2:14-15 LXX

καὶ αἱ ἡμέραι ἃς παρεπορεύθημεν ἀπὸ Καδης Βαρνη ἕως οὗ παρήλθομεν τὴν φάραγγα Ζαρετ τριάκοντα καὶ ὀκτὼ ἔτη ἕως οὗ διέπεσεν πᾶσα γενεὰ ἀνδρῶν πολεμιστῶν ἀποθνῄσκοντες ἐκ τῆς παρεμβολῆς καθότι ὤμοσεν αὐτοῖς ὁ θεός.  καὶ ἡ χεὶρ τοῦ θεοῦ ἦν ἐπ᾽ αὐτοῖς ἐξαναλῶσαι αὐτοὺς ἐκ τῆς παρεμβολῆς ἕως οὗ διέπεσαν --Deuteronomy 2:14-15 LXX

The first was like a lioness, and the wings of this one were as of an eagle. I kept watching until its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and was set upon feet of a human, and the heart of a human was given to it.—Daniel 7:4 LXX Theodotion

τὸ πρῶτον ὡσεὶ λέαινα καὶ πτερὰ αὐτῇ ὡσεὶ ἀετοῦ ἐθεώρουν ἕως οὗ ἐξετίλη τὰ πτερὰ αὐτῆς καὶ ἐξήρθη ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐπὶ ποδῶν ἀνθρώπου ἐστάθη καὶ καρδία ἀνθρώπου ἐδόθη αὐτῇ--Daniel 7:4 LXX (Theodotion)

until the ancient of days came, and he gave the judgment for the holy ones of the Most High, and the time arrived, and the holy ones gained possession of the kingdom.—Daniel 7:22 LXX Theodotion
ἕως οὗ ἦλθεν ὁ παλαιὸς τῶν ἡμερῶν καὶ τὸ κρίμα ἔδωκεν ἁγίοις ὑψίστου καὶ ὁ καιρὸς ἔφθασεν καὶ τὴν βασιλείαν κατέσχον οἱ ἅγιοι--Daniel 7:22 LXX (Theodotion)

until Daniel came—whose name was Baltasar according to the name of my god, who has a holy, divine spirit in himself—to whom I said—Daniel 4:8 LXX Theodotion

ἕως οὗ ἦλθεν Δανιηλ οὗ τὸ ὄνομα Βαλτασαρ κατὰ τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θεοῦ μου ὃς πνεῦμα θεοῦ ἅγιον ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχει καὶ τὸ ἐνύπνιον ἐνώπιον αὐτοῦ εἶπα--Daniel 4:8 LXX Theodotion

And because the king saw Ir and a holy one descending from heaven and he said, ‘Pluck out the tree, and destroy it, except leave the growth of its roots in the ground and in an iron and brass band and in the tender grass of the outdoors. And he will lodge in the dew of heaven, and his lot will be with the wild animals until seven seasons change over him’—Daniel 4:23 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ὅτι εἶδεν ὁ βασιλεὺς ιρ καὶ ἅγιον καταβαίνοντα ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καὶ εἶπεν ἐκτίλατε τὸ δένδρον καὶ διαφθείρατε αὐτό πλὴν τὴν φυὴν τῶν ῥιζῶν αὐτοῦ ἐάσατε ἐν τῇ γῇ καὶ ἐν δεσμῷ σιδηρῷ καὶ χαλκῷ καὶ ἐν τῇ χλόῃ τῇ ἔξω καὶ ἐν τῇ δρόσῳ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ αὐλισθήσεται καὶ μετὰ θηρίων ἀγρίων ἡ μερὶς αὐτοῦ ἕως οὗ ἑπτὰ καιροὶ ἀλλοιωθῶσιν ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν --Daniel 4:23 LXX Theodotion

And they will drive you away from humans, and your dwelling will be with the wild animals. And they will feed you grass like an ox, and you will lodge by the dew of heaven, and seven seasons will be altered over you until you acknowledge that the Most High has sovereignty over the kingdom of humans and will give it to whomever he wishes.—Daniel 4:25 LXX Theodotion

καὶ σὲ ἐκδιώξουσιν ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ μετὰ θηρίων ἀγρίων ἔσται ἡ κατοικία σου καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦν ψωμιοῦσίν σε καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δρόσου τοῦ οὐρανοῦ αὐλισθήσῃ καὶ ἑπτὰ καιροὶ ἀλλαγήσονται ἐπὶ σέ ἕως οὗ γνῷς ὅτι κυριεύει ὁ ὕψιστος τῆς βασιλείας τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ ᾧ ἂν δόξῃ δώσει αὐτήν--Daniel 4:25 LXX Theodotion

And they will drive you away from humans, and your dwelling will be with the wild animals. And they will feed you grass like an ox, and seven seasons will be altered over you until you acknowledge that the Most High has sovereignty over the kingdom of humans and will give it to whomever he wishes.”  At the same time, the sentence was completed against Nabouchodonosor, and he was driven away from humans and ate grass like an ox, and his body was bathed with the dew of heaven until his hair lengthened like that of lions and his nails like those of birds.—Daniel 4:32-33 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων σε ἐκδιώξουσιν καὶ μετὰ θηρίων ἀγρίων ἡ κατοικία σου καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦν ψωμιοῦσίν σε καὶ ἑπτὰ καιροὶ ἀλλαγήσονται ἐπὶ σέ ἕως οὗ γνῷς ὅτι κυριεύει ὁ ὕψιστος τῆς βασιλείας τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ ᾧ ἐὰν δόξῃ δώσει αὐτήν αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρᾳ ὁ λόγος συνετελέσθη ἐπὶ Ναβουχοδονοσορ καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἐξεδιώχθη καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦς ἤσθιεν καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δρόσου τοῦ οὐρανοῦ τὸ σῶμα αὐτοῦ ἐβάφη ἕως οὗ αἱ τρίχες αὐτοῦ ὡς λεόντων ἐμεγαλύνθησαν καὶ οἱ ὄνυχες αὐτοῦ ὡς ὀρνέων--Daniel 4:32-33 LXX Theodotion

Now the priests who bore the ark of the covenant stood in the Jordan until Iesous finished everything the Lord commanded him to tell the people. And the people hastened, and they crossed over.--Joshua 4:10 LXX

εἱστήκεισαν δὲ οἱ ἱερεῖς οἱ αἴροντες τὴν κιβωτὸν τῆς διαθήκης ἐν τῷ Ιορδάνῃ ἕως οὗ συνετέλεσεν Ἰησοῦς πάντα ἃ ἐνετείλατο κύριος ἀναγγεῖλαι τῷ λαῷ καὶ ἔσπευσεν ὁ λαὸς καὶ διέβησαν--Joshua 4:10 LXX

and they rejected the Lord among all the offspring of Israel, and he shook them and gave them into the hand of those who plundered them, until he had banished them from his presence-2 Kings 17:20 LXX (4 Kings 17:20 in LXX)

καὶ ἀπεώσαντο τὸν κύριον ἐν παντὶ σπέρματι Ισραηλ καὶ ἐσάλευσεν αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτοὺς ἐν χειρὶ διαρπαζόντων αὐτούς ἕως οὗ ἀπέρριψεν αὐτοὺς ἀπὸ προσώπου αὐτοῦ--2 Kings 17:20 LXX

until the Lord removed Israel from his sight, just as the Lord had spoken by the hand of all his slaves the prophets. And Israel was exiled from upon its own land to the Assyrians until this day.—2 Kings 17:23 LXX (4 Kings 17:23 in LXX)

ἕως οὗ μετέστησεν κύριος τὸν Ισραηλ ἀπὸ προσώπου αὐτοῦ καθὼς ἐλάλησεν κύριος ἐν χειρὶ πάντων τῶν δούλων αὐτοῦ τῶν προφητῶν καὶ ἀπῳκίσθη Ισραηλ ἐπάνωθεν τῆς γῆς αὐτοῦ εἰς Ἀσσυρίους ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης --2 Kings 17:23 LXX

And he made machines in Ierousalem devised by a mathematician to be on the towers and on the corners to fire projectiles and large stones. And their construction was noised abroad far and wide, because it was marveled at in order to be of help until he became strong.—2 Chronicles 26:15

καὶ ἐποίησεν ἐν Ιερουσαλημ μηχανὰς μεμηχανευμένας λογιστοῦ τοῦ εἶναι ἐπὶ τῶν πύργων καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν γωνιῶν βάλλειν βέλεσιν καὶ λίθοις μεγάλοις καὶ ἠκούσθη ἡ κατασκευὴ αὐτῶν ἕως πόρρω ὅτι ἐθαυμαστώθη τοῦ βοηθηθῆναι ἕως οὗ κατίσχυσεν --2 Chronicles 26:15 LXX

And the king spoke, and they brought the men who had slandered Daniel, and they were thrown into the lions’ pit—they and their sons and their wives. And *before* they reached the bottom of the pit the lions overpowered them and pulverized all their bones.—Daniel 6:25 LXX (verse 24 in some) Theodotion

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ βασιλεύς καὶ ἠγάγοσαν τοὺς ἄνδρας τοὺς διαβαλόντας τὸν Δανιηλ καὶ εἰς τὸν λάκκον τῶν λεόντων ἐνεβλήθησαν αὐτοὶ καὶ οἱ υἱοὶ αὐτῶν καὶ αἱ γυναῖκες αὐτῶν καὶ οὐκ ἔφθασαν εἰς τὸ ἔδαφος τοῦ λάκκου ἕως οὗ ἐκυρίευσαν αὐτῶν οἱ λέοντες καὶ πάντα τὰ ὀστᾶ αὐτῶν ἐλέπτυναν --Daniel 6:25 LXX Theodotion (v 24 in some)

And towards morning, the woman came and fell down by the door at the gateway to the man’s house, there where her master was, until it was light.—Judges 19:26 LXX Codex A (Alexandrian)

καὶ ἦλθεν ἡ γυνὴ τὸ πρὸς πρωὶ καὶ ἔπεσεν παρὰ τὴν θύραν τοῦ πυλῶνος τοῦ οἴκου τοῦ ἀνδρός οὗ ἦν ὁ κύριος αὐτῆς ἐκεῖ ἕως οὗ διέφαυσεν --Judges 19:26 LXX Judges A

As for me, behold, I have given bands upon you, and do not turn from your side to your side until the days of your enclosing are completed.—Ezekiel 4:8 LXX

καὶ ἐγὼ ἰδοὺ δέδωκα ἐπὶ σὲ δεσμούς καὶ μὴ στραφῇς ἀπὸ τοῦ πλευροῦ σου ἐπὶ τὸ πλευρόν σου ἕως οὗ συντελεσθῶσιν αἱ ἡμέραι τοῦ συγκλεισμοῦ σου --Ezekiel 4:8 LXX

because you were defiling yourself. And what if you are no longer cleansed until I will sate my fury?—Ezekiel 24:13 LXX

ἀνθ᾽ ὧν ἐμιαίνου σύ καὶ τί ἐὰν μὴ καθαρισθῇς ἔτι ἕως οὗ ἐμπλήσω τὸν θυμόν μου --Ezekiel 24:13 LXX

And Routh stayed close to the girls of Boos, gleaning until he completed the reaping of the barley and the wheat, and she lived with her mother-in-law.—Ruth 2:23 LXX
 

καὶ προσεκολλήθη Ρουθ τοῖς κορασίοις Βοος συλλέγειν ἕως οὗ συνετέλεσεν τὸν θερισμὸν τῶν κριθῶν καὶ τῶν πυρῶν καὶ ἐκάθισεν μετὰ τῆς πενθερᾶς αὐτῆς --Ruth 2:23 LXX

Now bathe and apply oil and put your clothing on yourself, and go up onto the threshing floor. Do not make yourself known to the man until he has finished drinking and eating.—Ruth 3:3 LXX

σὺ δὲ λούσῃ καὶ ἀλείψῃ καὶ περιθήσεις τὸν ἱματισμόν σου ἐπὶ σεαυτῇ καὶ ἀναβήσῃ ἐπὶ τὸν ἅλω μὴ γνωρισθῇς τῷ ἀνδρὶ ἕως οὗ συντελέσαι αὐτὸν πιεῖν καὶ φαγεῖν--Ruth 3:3 LXX

“But you, Achior, mercenary of Ammon, who have spoken these words in the day of your injustice, from this day forth you shall not see my face again until I punish the race of those out of Egypt.—Judith 6:5 LXX

σὺ δέ Αχιωρ μισθωτὲ τοῦ Αμμων ὃς ἐλάλησας τοὺς λόγους τούτους ἐν ἡμέρᾳ ἀδικίας σου οὐκ ὄψει ἔτι τὸ πρόσωπόν μου ἀπὸ τῆς ἡμέρας ταύτης ἕως οὗ ἐκδικήσω τὸ γένος τῶν ἐξ Αἰγύπτου--Judith 6:5 LXX


and you shall not perish until such time as you are utterly destroyed with them.--Judith 6:8 LXX

καὶ οὐκ ἀπολῇ ἕως οὗ ἐξολεθρευθῇς μετ᾽ αὐτῶν --Judith 6:8 LXX

And so they did. And Ioudith set forth, she and her slave-girl with her. The men of the city continued watching her until she went down the mountain, until she passed through the ravine and they no longer saw her—Judith 10:10 LXX

καὶ ἐποίησαν οὕτως καὶ ἐξῆλθεν Ιουδιθ αὐτὴ καὶ ἡ παιδίσκη αὐτῆς μετ᾽ αὐτῆς ἀπεσκόπευον δὲ αὐτὴν οἱ ἄνδρες τῆς πόλεως ἕως οὗ κατέβη τὸ ὄρος ἕως διῆλθεν τὸν αὐλῶνα καὶ οὐκέτι ἐθεώρουν αὐτήν--Judith 10:10 LXX

until I find a place for the Lord, a covert for the God of Iakob!”—Psalm 131:5 LXX

ἕως οὗ εὕρω τόπον τῷ κυρίῳ σκήνωμα τῷ θεῷ Ιακωβ --Psalm 131:5 LXX

And Moab was humbled in that day under the hand of Israel. And the land had rest for eighty years. And Aod judged them until he died.—Judges 3:30 LXX Codex A (Alexandrian)

καὶ ἐνετράπη Μωαβ ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ ὑπὸ τὴν χεῖρα Ισραηλ καὶ ἡσύχασεν ἡ γῆ ὀγδοήκοντα ἔτη καὶ ἔκρινεν αὐτοὺς Αωδ ἕως οὗ ἀπέθανεν--Judges 3:30 LXX Judges A

And Moab was humbled in that day under the hand of Israel. And the land had rest for eighty years. And Aod judged them until he died.—Judges 3:30 LXX Codex B (Vaticanus)

καὶ ἐνετράπη Μωαβ ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ ὑπὸ χεῖρα Ισραηλ καὶ ἡσύχασεν ἡ γῆ ὀγδοήκοντα ἔτη καὶ ἔκρινεν αὐτοὺς Αωδ ἕως οὗ ἀπέθανεν--Judges 3:30 Judges B LXX
 
And the hand of the sons of Israel was going out, going and becoming hard against King Iabin of Chanaan, until they destroyed King Iabin of Chanaan.—Judges 4:24 LXX Judges B (Codex Vaticanus)

καὶ ἐπορεύετο χεὶρ τῶν υἱῶν Ισραηλ πορευομένη καὶ σκληρυνομένη ἐπὶ Ιαβιν βασιλέα Χανααν ἕως οὗ ἐξωλέθρευσαν τὸν Ιαβιν βασιλέα Χανααν--Judges 4:24 LXX Judges B
 
Now when the sons of Israel heard, they all with one accord fell upon them and beat them back as far as Choba. And just as those from Ierousalem were present, so too were those from all the highlands, for they had reported to them what had happened to the camp of their enemies. And those in Galaad and those in Galilee outflanked them in a great defeat, until they came to Damascus and its territory.—Judith 15:5 LXX

ὡς δὲ ἤκουσαν οἱ υἱοὶ Ισραηλ πάντες ὁμοθυμαδὸν ἐπέπεσον ἐπ᾽ αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔκοπτον αὐτοὺς ἕως Χωβα ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ οἱ ἐξ Ιερουσαλημ παρεγενήθησαν καὶ ἐκ πάσης τῆς ὀρεινῆς ἀνήγγειλαν γὰρ αὐτοῖς τὰ γεγονότα τῇ παρεμβολῇ τῶν ἐχθρῶν αὐτῶν καὶ οἱ ἐν Γαλααδ καὶ οἱ ἐν τῇ Γαλιλαίᾳ ὑπερεκέρασαν αὐτοὺς πληγῇ μεγάλῃ ἕως οὗ παρῆλθον Δαμασκὸν καὶ τὰ ὅρια αὐτῆς --Judith 15:5 LXX

Therefore, if you do not tell me the dream, I know that you have conspired to speak a lying and corrupt word before me until the time passes. State to me my dream, and I shall know that you can tell me the interpretation.”—Daniel 2:9 LXX Theodotion

ἐὰν οὖν τὸ ἐνύπνιον μὴ ἀναγγείλητέ μοι οἶδα ὅτι ῥῆμα ψευδὲς καὶ διεφθαρμένον συνέθεσθε εἰπεῖν ἐνώπιόν μου ἕως οὗ ὁ καιρὸς παρέλθῃ τὸ ἐνύπνιόν μου εἴπατέ μοι καὶ γνώσομαι ὅτι τὴν σύγκρισιν αὐτοῦ ἀναγγελεῖτέ μοι--Daniel 2:9 LXX Theodotion

you kept looking until a stone was severed from a mountain, not by hands, and it struck the image on the iron and earthenware feet and completely pulverized.—Daniel 2:34 LXX Theodotion

ἐθεώρεις ἕως οὗ ἐτμήθη λίθος ἐξ ὄρους ἄνευ χειρῶν καὶ ἐπάταξεν τὴν εἰκόνα ἐπὶ τοὺς πόδας τοὺς σιδηροῦς καὶ ὀστρακίνους καὶ ἐλέπτυνεν αὐτοὺς εἰς τέλος --Daniel 2:34 LXX Theodotion

And now, report to me all that you have done in these days.” And Ioudith related everything to him in the midst of the people, all that she had done from the day on which she had gone forth until she was speaking to them.—Judith 14:8 LXX

καὶ νῦν ἀνάγγειλόν μοι ὅσα ἐποίησας ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις ταύταις καὶ ἀπήγγειλεν αὐτῷ Ιουδιθ ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ λαοῦ πάντα ὅσα ἦν πεποιηκυῖα ἀφ᾽ ἧς ἡμέρας ἐξῆλθεν ἕως οὗ ἐλάλει αὐτοῖς--Judith 14:8 LXX

He stood up and struck among the allophyles, until his hand grew weary and his hand stuck to the dagger, and the Lord brought about a great deliverance in that day. And the people were encamped behind him—only to despoil.—2 Samuel 23:10 LXX (called 2 Kings 23:10 in LXX)

αὐτὸ νέστη καὶ ἐπάταξεν ἐν τοῖς ἀλλοφύλοις ἕως οὗ ἐκοπίασεν ἡ χεὶρ αὐτοῦ καὶ προσεκολλήθη ἡ χεὶρ αὐτοῦ πρὸς τὴν μάχαιραν καὶ ἐποίησεν κύριος σωτηρίαν μεγάλην ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ καὶ ὁ λαὸς ἐκάθητο ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ πλὴν ἐκδιδύσκειν--2 Samuel 23:10 LXX

And all the assembly did obeisance, and the harp-singers were singing and the trumpets were trumpeting until the whole burnt offering was finished.—2 Chronicles 29:28 LXX

καὶ πᾶσα ἡ ἐκκλησία προσεκύνει καὶ οἱ ψαλτῳδοὶ ᾄδοντες καὶ αἱ σάλπιγγες σαλπίζουσαι ἕως οὗ συνετελέσθη ἡ ὁλοκαύτωσις--2 Chronicles 29:28 LXX

But the priests were few and were unable to skin the whole burnt offering, and their brothers the Leuites assisted them until the task was finished and until the priests were purified, because the Leuites had been purified more eagerly than the priests.—2 Chronicles 29:34 LXX

ἀλλ᾽ ἢ οἱ ἱερεῖς ὀλίγοι ἦσαν καὶ οὐκ ἐδύναντο δεῖραι τὴν ὁλοκαύτωσιν καὶ ἀντελάβοντο αὐτῶν οἱ ἀδελφοὶ αὐτῶν οἱ Λευῖται ἕως οὗ συνετελέσθη τὸ ἔργον καὶ ἕως οὗ ἡγνίσθησαν οἱ ἱερεῖς ὅτι οἱ Λευῖται προθύμως ἡγνίσθησαν παρὰ τοὺς ἱερεῖς--2 Chronicles 29:34 LXX

In his days righteousness will sprout, and an abundance of peace, until the moon vanishes—Psalm 71:7 LXX (Psalm 72 in the most bibles)

 ἀνατελεῖ ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις αὐτοῦ δικαιοσύνη καὶ πλῆθος εἰρήνης ἕως οὗ ἀνταναιρεθῇ ἡ σελήνη --Psalm 71:7 LXX

Scarcely had I passed from them, until I found him whom my soul loved. I took hold of him and would not let him go until I brought him into my mother’s house and into a chamber of her who conceived me.—Songs of Solomon 3:4 LXX

ὡς μικρὸν ὅτε παρῆλθον ἀπ᾽ αὐτῶν ἕως οὗ εὗρον ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου ἐκράτησα αὐτὸν καὶ οὐκ ἀφήσω αὐτόν ἕως οὗ εἰσήγαγον αὐτὸν εἰς οἶκον μητρός μου καὶ εἰς ταμίειον τῆς συλλαβούσης με --Songs of Solomon 3:4 LXX

and the man was exalted, and he kept getting greater, until he became very great.—Genesis 26:13 LXX

καὶ ὑψώθη ὁ ἄνθρωπος καὶ προβαίνων μείζων ἐγίνετο ἕως οὗ μέγας ἐγένετο σφόδρα --Genesis 26:13 LXX

Your ropes broke, because they were not strong. Your mast has bent; it will not release the sails; it will not raise a signal until it is given up for plunder; therefore many lame will take plunder—Isaiah 33:23 LXX

ἐρράγησαν τὰ σχοινία σου ὅτι οὐκ ἐνίσχυσεν ὁ ἱστός σου ἔκλινεν οὐ χαλάσει τὰ ἱστία οὐκ ἀρεῖ σημεῖον ἕως οὗ παραδοθῇ εἰς προνομήν τοίνυν πολλοὶ χωλοὶ προνομὴν ποιήσουσιν --Isaiah 33:23 LXX

Injustice, injustice, I will make it! (But this shall not be such.) Until he comes to whom it is due, I will also give it over to him.—Ezekiel 21:32 (verse 27 In some texts)

ἀδικίαν ἀδικίαν θήσομαι αὐτήν οὐδ᾽ αὕτη τοιαύτη ἔσται ἕως οὗ ἔλθῃ ᾧ καθήκει καὶ παραδώσω αὐτῷ --Ezekiel 21:32 LXX (or verse 27)

you would not wait for them until they mature, would you? Or would you, on their account, refrain from getting married? Don’t, my daughters, for it has been more bitter for me than for you, because the hand of the Lord has gone forth against me.”—Ruth 1:13

μὴ αὐτοὺς προσδέξεσθε ἕως οὗ ἁδρυνθῶσιν ἢ αὐτοῖς κατασχεθήσεσθε τοῦ μὴ γενέσθαι ἀνδρί μὴ δή θυγατέρες μου ὅτι ἐπικράνθη μοι ὑπὲρ ὑμᾶς ὅτι ἐξῆλθεν ἐν ἐμοὶ χεὶρ κυρίου--Ruth 1:13 LXX

until the Lord stoops down and looks from heaven.—Lamentations 3:50 LXX

 ἕως οὗ διακύψῃ καὶ ἴδῃ κύριος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ --Lamentation 3:50 LXX

So before I tasted anything, I sprang up and removed him to a certain chamber until the sun set.—Tobit 2:4 LXX (BA) (short form found in Alexandrian, Vatican, Venetus text)

κἀγὼ πρὶν ἢ γεύσασθαί με ἀναπηδήσας ἀνειλόμην αὐτὸν εἴς τι οἴκημα ἕως οὗ ἔδυ ὁ ἥλιος --Tobit 2:4 LXX Tobit BA (shorter form of Tobit found in most eg Vaticanus, Alexandrinus, Venetus)

I did not know that there were sparrows in the wall, and since my eyes were open the sparrows dropped their warm excrement into my eyes, and white films came into my eyes. So I went to physicians, but they did not help me. Achiacharos, however, supported me until he went to Elymais.—Tobit 2:10 LXX (BA)

καὶ οὐκ ᾔδειν ὅτι στρουθία ἐν τῷ τοίχῳ ἐστίν καὶ τῶν ὀφθαλμῶν μου ἀνεῳγότων ἀφώδευσαν τὰ στρουθία θερμὸν εἰς τοὺς ὀφθαλμούς μου καὶ ἐγενήθη λευκώματα εἰς τοὺς ὀφθαλμούς μου καὶ ἐπορεύθην πρὸς ἰατρούς καὶ οὐκ ὠφέλησάν με Αχιαχαρος δὲ ἔτρεφέν με ἕως οὗ ἐπορεύθη εἰς τὴν Ἐλυμαΐδα --Tobit 2:10 LXX Tobit BA

And she said to him, “Be quiet; stop deceiving me! My child has perished.” And she would go out every day to the road outside by which they had left; during the day she ate no food, and during the nights she never stopped mourning for Tobias her son, until the fourteen days of the wedding feast had ended which Ragouel had sworn that he should have there. Then Tobias said to Ragouel, “Send me back, for my father and mother do not hope to see me again.”—Tobit 10:7 LXX (BA)

καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ σίγα μὴ πλάνα με ἀπώλετο τὸ παιδίον μου καὶ ἐπορεύετο καθ᾽ ἡμέραν εἰς τὴν ὁδὸν ἔξω οἵας ἀπῆλθεν ἡμέρας τε ἄρτον οὐκ ἤσθιεν τὰς δὲ νύκτας οὐ διελίμπανεν θρηνοῦσα Τωβιαν τὸν υἱὸν αὐτῆς ἕως οὗ συνετελέσθησαν αἱ δέκα τέσσαρες ἡμέραι τοῦ γάμου ἃς ὤμοσεν Ραγουηλ ποιῆσαι αὐτὸν ἐκεῖ --Tobit 10:7 LXX Tobit BA
 
And Ionas went out of the city and sat down opposite the city and made a tent for himself there. And he sat under it in the shade until he should see what would become of the city—Jonah 4:5 LXX

καὶ οὐ διῆλθον ἡμέραι τεσσαράκοντα ἕως οὗ ἀπέκτειναν αὐτὸν οἱ δύο υἱοὶ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἔφυγον εἰς τὰ ὄρη Αραρατ καὶ ἐβασίλευσεν Σαχερδονος υἱὸς αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ αὐτόν καὶ ἔταξεν Αχιχαρον τὸν Αναηλ τὸν τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ μου υἱὸν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν ἐκλογιστίαν τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ καὶ αὐτὸς εἶχεν τὴν ἐξουσίαν ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν διοίκησιν --Jonah 4:5 LXX

Because at first she will travel with him though he twist and turn, fear and dread she will bring upon him, and she will torment him with her training until she has faith in his soul, and she will test him with her statutes.—Sirach 4:17 LXX

ὅτι διεστραμμένως πορεύσεται μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ ἐν πρώτοις φόβον καὶ δειλίαν ἐπάξει ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸν καὶ βασανίσει αὐτὸν ἐν παιδείᾳ αὐτῆς ἕως οὗ ἐμπιστεύσῃ τῇ ψυχῇ αὐτοῦ καὶ πειράσει αὐτὸν ἐν τοῖς δικαιώμασιν αὐτῆς --Sirach 4:17 LXX

And all the rulers and all the people gave and brought and dropped into the chest until it was full.—2 Chronicles 24:10 LXX

καὶ ἔδωκαν πάντες ἄρχοντες καὶ πᾶς ὁ λαὸς καὶ εἰσέφερον καὶ ἐνέβαλλον εἰς τὸ γλωσσόκομον ἕως οὗ ἐπληρώθη--2 Chronicles 24:10 LXX

Have mercy on me, O God; have mercy on me, because in you my soul trusts and in the shadow of your wings I will hope until lawlessness passes by.—Psalm 56:2 (57:1 or 57:2 in most Bibles)

ἐλέησόν με ὁ θεός ἐλέησόν με ὅτι ἐπὶ σοὶ πέποιθεν ἡ ψυχή μου καὶ ἐν τῇ σκιᾷ τῶν πτερύγων σου ἐλπιῶ ἕως οὗ παρέλθῃ ἡ ἀνομία--Psalm 56:2 LXX

I have adjured you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the powers and by the forces of the fields that you do not stir up or awake love until it wish!--Songs of Solomon 2:7 LXX

ὥρκισα ὑμᾶς θυγατέρες Ιερουσαλημ ἐν ταῖς δυνάμεσιν καὶ ἐν ταῖς ἰσχύσεσιν τοῦ ἀγροῦ ἐὰν ἐγείρητε καὶ ἐξεγείρητε τὴν ἀγάπην ἕως οὗ θελήσῃ --Songs of Solomon 2:7 LXX

Until the day breathes and the shadows stir, turn, my brotherkin; be like the gazelle or a fawn of stags on mountains with glens—Songs of Solomon 2:17 LXX

ἕως οὗ διαπνεύσῃ ἡ ἡμέρα καὶ κινηθῶσιν αἱ σκιαί ἀπόστρεψον ὁμοιώθητι σύ ἀδελφιδέ μου τῷ δόρκωνι ἢ νεβρῷ ἐλάφων ἐπὶ ὄρη κοιλωμάτων --Songs of Solomon 2:17 LXX

I will go and return to my place until they are annihilated, and they will seek my face.—Hosea 5:15 LXX

πορεύσομαι καὶ ἐπιστρέψω εἰς τὸν τόπον μου ἕως οὗ ἀφανισθῶσιν καὶ ἐπιζητήσουσιν τὸ πρόσωπόν μου ἐν θλίψει αὐτῶν ὀρθριοῦσι πρός με λέγοντες--Hosea 5:15 LXX

And indeed Manasses shed very much innocent blood, until he had filled Ierousalem mouth to mouth, besides some of his sins that he made Iouda sin so that they did what was evil in the sight of the Lord—2 Kings 21:16 LXX (4 Kings 21:16 in LXX)

 καί γε αἷμα ἀθῷον ἐξέχεεν Μανασσης πολὺ σφόδρα ἕως οὗ ἔπλησεν τὴν Ιερουσαλημ στόμα εἰς στόμα πλὴν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν αὐτοῦ ὧν ἐξήμαρτεν τὸν Ιουδαν τοῦ ποιῆσαι τὸ πονηρὸν ἐν ὀφθαλμοῖς κυρίου--2 Kings 21:16 LXX
 
and they ministered with instruments before the tent of the house of witness, until Salomon had built the Lord’s house in Ierousalem, and they stood according to their rule at their ministrations.—1 Chronicles 6:17 LXX

καὶ ἦσαν λειτουργοῦντες ἐναντίον τῆς σκηνῆς οἴκου μαρτυρίου ἐν ὀργάνοις ἕως οὗ ᾠκοδόμησεν Σαλωμων τὸν οἶκον κυρίου ἐν Ιερουσαλημ καὶ ἔστησαν κατὰ τὴν κρίσιν αὐτῶν ἐπὶ τὰς λειτουργίας αὐτῶν --1 Chronicles 6:17 LXX
 
Until he receives it, he will kiss his hands, and about his fellow’s money he lowers his voice, and at the moment for repayment he will delay for time and will pay back words of apathy, and he will blame the time.—Sirach 29:5

ἕως οὗ λάβῃ καταφιλήσει χεῖρας αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν χρημάτων τοῦ πλησίον ταπεινώσει φωνήν καὶ ἐν καιρῷ ἀποδόσεως παρελκύσει χρόνον καὶ ἀποδώσει λόγους ἀκηδίας καὶ τὸν καιρὸν αἰτιάσεται--Sirach 29:5 LXX
 
Firm is his heart; he will never be afraid, until he looks on his enemies—Psalm 111:8 LXX

ἐστήρικται ἡ καρδία αὐτοῦ οὐ μὴ φοβηθῇ ἕως οὗ ἐπίδῃ ἐπὶ τοὺς ἐχθροὺς αὐτοῦ --Psalm 111:8 LXX 
 
And he was driven from humans, and his heart was rendered with the animals. And his dwelling was with the wild asses, and they would feed him grass like an ox, and his body was bathed with the dew of heaven until he acknowledged that the Most High God has sovereignty over the kingdom of humans, and will give it to whomever he wishes.—Daniel 5:21 LXX Theodotion

καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἐξεδιώχθη καὶ ἡ καρδία αὐτοῦ μετὰ τῶν θηρίων ἐδόθη καὶ μετὰ ὀνάγρων ἡ κατοικία αὐτοῦ καὶ χόρτον ὡς βοῦν ἐψώμιζον αὐτόν καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δρόσου τοῦ οὐρανοῦ τὸ σῶμα αὐτοῦ ἐβάφη ἕως οὗ ἔγνω ὅτι κυριεύει ὁ θεὸς ὁ ὕψιστος τῆς βασιλείας τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ ᾧ ἂν δόξῃ δώσει αὐτήν --Daniel 5:21 LXX Theodotion
 
And your sin which you had made, the bull calf, I took it and burned it with fire and crushed it, grinding thoroughly, until it became fine and it was as dust, and I threw the dust into the wadi that runs down from the mountain.—Deuteronomy 9:21

καὶ τὴν ἁμαρτίαν ὑμῶν ἣν ἐποιήσατε τὸν μόσχον ἔλαβον αὐτὸν καὶ κατέκαυσα αὐτὸν ἐν πυρὶ καὶ συνέκοψα αὐτὸν καταλέσας σφόδρα ἕως οὗ ἐγένετο λεπτόν καὶ ἐγενήθη ὡσεὶ κονιορτός καὶ ἔρριψα τὸν κονιορτὸν εἰς τὸν χειμάρρουν τὸν καταβαίνοντα ἐκ τοῦ ὄρους --Deuteronomy 9:21 LXX

And I did not believe the reports until I came and my eyes saw, and behold, I had not been told the half of the abundance of your wisdom. You have added to the rumor I heard.—2 Chronicles 9:6 LXX

καὶ οὐκ ἐπίστευσα τοῖς λόγοις ἕως οὗ ἦλθον καὶ εἶδον οἱ ὀφθαλμοί μου καὶ ἰδοὺ οὐκ ἀπηγγέλη μοι ἥμισυ τοῦ πλήθους τῆς σοφίας σου προσέθηκας ἐπὶ τὴν ἀκοήν ἣν ἤκουσα--2 Chronicles 9:6 LXX
 
And you will be in grave infirmity with a sickness of the belly until your belly comes out with the infirmity from days to days.”—2 Chronicles 21:15 LXX

 καὶ σὺ ἐν μαλακίᾳ πονηρᾷ ἐν νόσῳ κοιλίας ἕως οὗ ἐξέλθῃ ἡ κοιλία σου μετὰ τῆς μαλακίας ἐξ ἡμερῶν εἰς ἡμέρας --2 Chronicles 21:15 LXX
 
And it happened after these things that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, became ill, and his illness was so severe until there was no breath left in him.—1 Kings 17:17 LXX (3 Kings 17:17 in LXX)

καὶ ἐγένετο μετὰ ταῦτα καὶ ἠρρώστησεν ὁ υἱὸς τῆς γυναικὸς τῆς κυρίας τοῦ οἴκου καὶ ἦν ἡ ἀρρωστία αὐτοῦ κραταιὰ σφόδρα ἕως οὗ οὐχ ὑπελείφθη ἐν αὐτῷ πνεῦμα--1 Kings 17:17 LXX
 
And Salomon sought to put Ieroboam to death, and he arose and fled to Egypt to King Sousakim of Egypt, and he was in Egypt until Salomon died.—1 Kings 11:40 LXX (3 Kings 11:40)

καὶ ἐζήτησεν Σαλωμων θανατῶσαι τὸν Ιεροβοαμ καὶ ἀνέστη καὶ ἀπέδρα εἰς Αἴγυπτον πρὸς Σουσακιμ βασιλέα Αἰγύπτου καὶ ἦν ἐν Αἰγύπτῳ ἕως οὗ ἀπέθανεν Σαλωμων--1 Kings 11:40 LXX

And all the work was accomplished from the day it was founded until Salomon completed the Lord’s house.—2 Chronicles 8:16 LXX

 καὶ ἡτοιμάσθη πᾶσα ἡ ἐργασία ἀφ᾽ ἧς ἡμέρας ἐθεμελιώθη ἕως οὗ ἐτελείωσεν Σαλωμων τὸν οἶκον κυρίου--2 Chronicles 8:16 LXX

They shall vanish like water that flows through; he will bend his bow until they become weak.—Psalm 57:8 LXX (Psalm 58 in most bibles)

ἐξουδενωθήσονται ὡς ὕδωρ διαπορευόμενον ἐντενεῖ τὸ τόξον αὐτοῦ ἕως οὗ ἀσθενήσουσιν --Psalm 57:8 LXX

Look, as slaves’ eyes look to their masters’ hands, as a maid’s eyes to her mistress’ hands, so our eyes look to the Lord our God, until he has compassion on us.—Psalm 122:2 (Psalm 123 in most)

 ἰδοὺ ὡς ὀφθαλμοὶ δούλων εἰς χεῖρας τῶν κυρίων αὐτῶν ὡς ὀφθαλμοὶ παιδίσκης εἰς χεῖρας τῆς κυρίας αὐτῆς οὕτως οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ ἡμῶν πρὸς κύριον τὸν θεὸν ἡμῶν ἕως οὗ οἰκτιρήσαι ἡμᾶς --Psalm 122:2 LXX

And there was a great famine in Samaria, and behold, they besieged it until a donkey’s head was fifty shekels of silver, and the fourth of a kab of doves’ dung was five shekels of silver.—2 King 6:25 LXX (4 Kings 6:25)

καὶ ἐγένετο λιμὸς μέγας ἐν Σαμαρείᾳ καὶ ἰδοὺ περιεκάθηντο ἐπ᾽ αὐτήν ἕως οὗ ἐγενήθη κεφαλὴ ὄνου πεντήκοντα σίκλων ἀργυρίου καὶ τέταρτον τοῦ κάβου κόπρου περιστερῶν πέντε σίκλων ἀργυρίου--2 Kings 6:25 LXX

Pseudopigraphical/Apocrypha/Miscellaneous writings:

in no way did he turn the rudder of religion until he sailed into the haven of immortal victory.--4 Maccabees 7:3 (RSV)

κατ᾽ οὐδένα τρόπον ἔτρεψε τοὺς τῆς εὐσεβείας οἴακας ἕως οὗ ἔπλευσεν ἐπὶ τὸν τῆς ἀθανάτου νίκης λιμένα--4 Maccabees 7:3

Pagan/secular writings:

the Spartans only, although they dwelt in an unwalled city, and were few in number because of their continual wars, and had become much weaker and an easy prey, still keeping alive some feeble sparks of the laws of Lycurgus, did not take any part in the campaigns of these or of the other kings of Macedon who ruled in the interval following, nor did they ever enter the general congress or even pay tribute. So it was, until they ceased altogether to observe the laws of Lycurgus, and came to be ruled despotically by their own citizens, preserving nothing of their ancestral discipline any longer, and so they became much like the rest, and put from them their former glory and freedom of speech, and were reduced to a state of subjection; and now they, like the rest of the Greeks, have come under Roman sway.-- Plutarch, Instituta Laconica 42 (writing in Koine Greek in the 1st century and early 2nd)

μόνοι Λακεδαιμόνιοι, καίπερ ἀτείχιστον πόλιν ἔχοντες καὶ ὀλίγοι πάνυ ὄντες διὰ τοὺς συνεχεῖς πολέμους καὶ πολὺ ἀσθενέστεροι καὶ εὐχείρωτοι γενόμενοι, πάνυ βραχέα τινὰ ζώπυρα διασῴζοντες τῆς Λυκούργου νομοθεσίας, οὔτε συνεστράτευσαν οὔτε τούτοις οὔτε τοῖς μεταξὺ Μακεδονικοῖς βασιλεῦσιν, οὔτ᾽ εἰς συνέδριον κοινὸν εἰσῆλθον οὐδὲ φόρον ἤνεγκαν: ἕως οὗ παντάπασιν  ὑπεριδόντες τὴν Λυκούργου νομοθεσίαν ὑπὸ τῶν ἰδίων πολιτῶν ἐτυραννεύθησαν μηδὲν ἔτι σῴζοντες τῆς πατρίου ἀγωγῆς, καὶ παραπλήσιοι τοῖς ἄλλοις γενόμενοι τὴν πρόσθεν εὔκλειαν καὶ παρρησίαν ἀπέθεντο καὶ εἰς δουλείαν μετέστησαν, καὶ νῦν ὑπὸ Ῥωμαίοις καθάπερ οἱ ἄλλοι Ἕλληνες ἐγένοντο..-- Plutarch, Instituta Laconica 42 (writing in Koine Greek in the 1st century and early 2nd)

But those my fellow legates, having gotten great riches from those tithes which as priests were their dues, and were given to them, determined to return to their own country. Yet when I desired them to stay so long, that we might first settle the public affairs, they complied with me.--The Life of Flavius Josephus, Section 63 (paragraph 12)

οἱ δὲ συμπρέσβεις εὐπορήσαντες πολλῶν χρημάτων ἐκ τῶν διδομένων αὐτοῖς δεκατῶν, ἃς ὄντες ἱερεῖς ὀφειλομένας ἀπελάμβανον, εἰς τὴν οἰκείαν ὑποστρέφειν ἔκριναν. ἐμοῦ δ᾽ αὐτοὺς προσμεῖναι παρακαλέσαντος ἕως οὗ τὰ πράγματα καταστήσωμεν, πείθονται.--The Life of Flavius Josephus, Section 63 (paragraph 12)

When the day appointed for the battle arrived, Pallene (who had fallen deeply in love with Clitus) was terribly afraid for him: she dared not tell what she felt to any of her companions, but tears coursed down and down over her cheeks until her old tutor realized the state of affairs, and, after he had become aware of her passion, encouraged her to be of good cheer, as all would come about according to her desires: and he went off and suborned the chariot-driver of Dryas, inducing him, by the promise of a heavy bribe, to leave undone the pins of his chariot-wheels.--Parthenius, Narrationes Amatoriae 6.3

Τῆς δὲ ἀφωρισμένης ἡμέρας παρούσης, ἡ Παλλήνη ῾ἔτυχε γὰρ ἐρῶσα τοῦ Κλείτοὐ πάνυ ὠρρώδει περὶ αὐτοῦ, καὶ σημῆναι μὲν οὐκ ἐτόλμα τινὶ τῶν ἀμφ̓ αὑτήν, δάκρυα δὲ πολλὰ κατεχεῖτο τῶν παρειῶν αὐτῆς, ἕως οὗ ὁ τροφεὺς αὐτῆς πρεσβύτης ἀναπυνθανόμενος καὶ ἐπιγνοὺς τὸ πάθος τῇ μὲν θαρρεῖν παρεκελεύσατο, ὡς ᾗ βούλεται, ταύτῃ τοῦ πράγματος χωρήσοντος:-- Parthenius, Narrationes Amatoriae 6.3
 

If as many numbers as we please beginning from an unit be set out continuously in double proportion, until the sum of all becomes prime, and if the sum multiplied into the last make some number, the product will be perfect.      
For let as many numbers as we please, A, B, C, D, beginning from an unit be set out in double proportion, until the sum of all becomes prime, let E be equal to the sum, and let E by multiplying D make FG; I say that FG is perfect.--Euclid, Elements Book 9, Proposition 36, c 300 BC

ἐὰν ἀπὸ μονάδος ὁποσοιοῦν ἀριθμοὶ ἑξῆς ἐκτεθῶσιν ἐν τῇ διπλασίονι ἀναλογίᾳ, ἕως οὗ ὁ σύμπας συντεθεὶς πρῶτος γένηται, καὶ ὁ σύμπας ἐπὶ τὸν ἔσχατον πολλαπλασιασθεὶς ποιῇ τινα,
ὁ γενόμενος τέλειος ἔσται.
ἀπὸ γὰρ μονάδος ἐκκείσθωσαν ὁσοιδηποτοῦν ἀριθμοὶ ἐν τῇ διπλασίονι ἀναλογίᾳ, ἕως οὗ ὁ σύμπας συντεθεὶς πρῶτος γένηται, οἱ Α, Β, Γ, Δ, καὶ τῷ σύμπαντι ἴσος ἔστω--Euclid, Elements Book 9, Proposition 36

Saturday, September 8, 2012

Youtube Video on Psalm 69 & Virgin Mary

I posted this youtube video today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtH9VGwyh7Y



I refute the claims of Matt Slick the owner of the anti-Catholic site carm.org

His usage of Psalm 69 demonstrates the liklihood that Matt is unfamiliar with the Jewish methods of interpretation used by the New Testament.

The sound quality is bad at point, and screechs a few times, so watch out.

BTW, if you want check how bad Matt Slick is theologically, look at his pages on masturbation, birth control/contraception, and oral sex--his positions may shock/ disgust you. This is what happens when you hold to Sola Scriptura and leave yourself as the ultimate authority (that is they say Scripture is the ultimate authority, but ultimately its their own interpretation/spin on what the Bible says).

Thursday, July 7, 2011

Desperate Protestant arguments to "prove" Mary is not the Mother of God

The other day I encountered the most desperate arguments by Protestants to explain why Jesus did not have original sin, without having a sinless Mary--God forbid should the woman the Lord chose be sinless! They likewise concocted some screwy reasons why Mary was not really Jesus' mother!

 One of them was arguing that Jesus has blood that was special and did not have sin--as if sin were transmitted in the blood, or that blood in of its self were evil.  The fact is when the bible calls blood righteous or blameless it's an expression for the righteousness of the person being killed. It's not refering at all to "sinful blood." To say that blood itself transfers sins is smacking with gnostic doctrine which believes the physical world to be evil. I was continually question by people if "blood passes to the child"-which it generally does not, however DOES occassionally happen, they were trying to argue that somehow this proves Jesus did not get "Mary's tainted blood", yet what they fail to realize if in the womb they themselves do not get their mother's "tainted" blood, NOR THEIR FATHERS! So why are not all men conceived without original sin or "sin nature" as they prefer to say? (As a side note, they seem to be ignorant that a child's blood is determined by a combination of the mother and fathers, eg. if the mother is AA and the father is OO the child will be AO; also, ignorant of the fact that modern biology says the mother is the one that accepts the seed via chemical signals, though neither of these are really relevant to the discussion).  Now, continuing she pretends Acts 17:26 somehow proves sin is passed in the blood--though it only says (and only in certain manuscripts) that all men were made of "one blood" (ie Adam), yet she conveniently forgets that Christ too is a "man."  So apparently "all does not always mean all" applies here too! Regardless, this verse in no way speaks of sin being passed in the blood. Even Jesus spoke of other people's blood as being "just":

upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.--Matthew 23:35

Dare we interpret this to mean their physical blood was a better quality than the rest of man's "sinful blood'"? After all, they too were of the "one blood" of Adam! This is the some person I addressed in a previous Question and Answer session over this issue.  People continued to argue that Jesus was not of Mary because she was sinful, so He could have "none of her DNA or blood."  In this desperation to discount Mary they make Jesus a false Messiah because He had to be of the tribe of Judah to be King.  Furthermore, he is called the "seed of David"--so he must be of the "blood line" of David.  If He did not have anything from Mary--how was He the "seed" of David at all?

Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?--John 7:42

In fact, this is not the only verse in the Scriptures which call Him the "seed of David."  St Paul even makes it clear He speaks of Christ being a literal descendant of David by also adding that Christ was of the "seed of David ACCORDING to the FLESH."

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;--Romans 1:3

Another person tried to make an even more desperate against Mary by saying that Jesus' body was prepare in Hebrews means God created a body for Jesus then placed it inside of Mary.

For this reason, when he came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; holocausts and sin offerings you took no delight in."--Hebrews 10:5-6

Nothing in this verse at all implies God created a body outside of the Virgin Mary, in fact if it did it would contradict the Scripture when it says:



Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.--Isaiah 9:6
Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.--Luke 1:30-31

Why does the Archangel Gabriel call it conceiving, if according these Protestants God merely relocated an already made body inside of Mary for Jesus?

Furthermore, why is Jesus refered to as the "fruit of the womb" of Mary if Jesus is not the fruit that was produce from Mary via an umbilical cord? Also, how can these people even argue Jesus is the one being spoken of as the "seed of the woman" in Genesis 3:15 if Jesus is not Mary's seed? (This is an argument from a Protestant prespective, since all Christians are actually the "seed of the woman" spoken of in Genesis, not simply Christ, though He fulfills the role first and foremost and without that seed none of the others ones would prosper in overcoming the serpent).

 Why shouldn't we simply believe the Holy Spirit when speaking through Elizabeth the Blessed Virgin Mary is declared to be the "mother of my Lord"?

And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?--Luke 1:43

In summary: Mary is called the "Mother" of the Lord, Jesus is called the "seed of David according to the flesh" by St Paul, Mary is told she will "conceive" in her womb (not be implanted with a preexistent body), and Jesus is called the "fruit of her womb," so there is NO reason to speculate Jesus was not a physical descendant of the Virgin Mary.

Addition: I have also encountered people objecting to calling Mary the Mother of God on the basis that she did not bear the Father and the Holy Spirit.  However, this reasoning is faulty in that it would mean that Jesus is not God since He is not the Father and the Spirit.  If such requirements were needed to make Mary the Mother of God, then Jesus, nor any other member of the Trinity maybe called God on Their own since, no person of the Trinity is Himself all Three!  Thus the Bible would have errored in Hebrews 1 and Psalms when it has the Father addressesing the Son says "Thy throne of God.."

Sunday, August 15, 2010

Queen of Heaven

The Queen of Heaven

Several times I have encountered Protestants accusing me of having Mary as a pagan goddess simply because the Virgin Mary is sometimes referred to as the "Queen of heaven." They would quote Jeremiah typically where a pagan goddess is referred to as the Queen of Heaven.
The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger.--Jeremiah 7:18 (NIV)
In addition the term Queen of Heaven is mentioned in Jeremiah 44 where its mentioned people would "burn incense and pour out drink offerings to her".

However, the Virgin Mary is not a goddess to us, she is, however, the holiest woman ever made by God, but is not omnipotent. Catholic women do not make "cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven" as the pagans did for Asherah. Nor do we pour out drink offerings and burn incense offerings to her as the pagans did for Asherah.

In fact when there was a sect in the early Church called the Collyridians in Arabia that did offer to Mary "cakes of bread"-- they were condemned:
"For certain women decorate a barber's chair or a square seat, spread a cloth on it, set out bread and offer it in Mary's name on a certain day of the year"-St Epiphanius of Salamis, The Panarion [The Medicine Chest against Heresies] (AD 377)
He calls their practices "silly", "ridiculous," "extreme," and "idolatrous". This group may be the reason the Quran speaks of Mary as if Christians included her in the trinity.

The reason Catholics do call Mary Queen of Heaven is because of her Son, Christ, who is the King of Heaven, and in the Old Testament Scriptures the mother of the King was given a throne and was Queen (perhaps since kings had many wives in those days and would cause there to be many queens):
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king arose to meet her, bowed before her, and sat on his throne; then he had a throne set for the king's mother, and she sat on his right.-1 Kings 2:19 NASB

Say to the king and the queen mother, "Take a lowly seat, For your beautiful crown Has come down from your head."--Jeremiah 13:18 NASB
Notice that Revelation 12 can be interpreted as Mary, since she did give birth to the male Child, Jesus:
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;--Revelation 12:1 NASB
Certainly we do not call Mary Queen of Heaven for no reason at all! (It is also interesting why Protestants do not wish to call her a queen in any sense if all saints in Heaven are given crowns and are called "kings" or "queen" in Revelation)

Though the term Queen of Heaven is given to a pagan goddess in the Old Testament, does not mean the term must be excluded to Mary? Let's consider some biblical titles given to people:

Who is the "King of kings?" Christ?, or a worldly pagan king?

Most assume only Christ can be called "king of kings"as seen here:
which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,--1 Timothy 6:15

They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."--Revelation 17:14

On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.--Revelation 19:16
HOWEVER, here we see it being applied to earthly rulers of the Old Testament:
Artaxerxes, king of kings, To Ezra the priest, a teacher of the Law of the God of heaven: Greetings.--Ezra 7:12

"For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army.--Ezekiel 26:7

You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory;-Daniel 2:37
Hence, following the logic of Protestants making the assertion the Catholic Mary is a pagan goddess just because she is called Queen of Heaven, then THEY would have to conclude THEY worship pagan kings because they call God "King of kings" or they would have to deny the Divine Inspiration of St Paul in 1 Timothy and St John in Revelation. Both of these points are ridiculous since just because two people are called the same thing does not require them to be the same person.

Let us continue with another, more controversial title found in the bible--Lucifer. Most assume Lucifer if the actual name of the Devil before he fell and became known as Satan, or the Devil. However, this is not the case as all, Lucifer is just a reference to the state of Satan prior to his fall, not his actual name. The name/word Lucifer is actually a good name, not to be associated with something sinister as a the devil, in fact in the early Church some Christians were actually named Lucifer. Most are surprised to know that Lucifer is not a Hebrew name, in fact is not even Greek or Aramaic--its Latin. The reason people associated the name Lucifer as Satan's proper name is because of the King James Version of the Bible, where in Isaiah 14:12 it reads:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
This is proof of the KJV is influenced by the Latin Vulgate which read in Isaiah 14:12:
quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
The King James Version seems to present it as a his name, the original 1611 KJV puts in in the margins an alternative translation "day starre."It also should be noted the person called Lucifer here is not necessary the devil, but a king being addressed.

Strong's Lexicon for the word translated in the KJV as lucifer states its definition as the following:
From 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star: - lucifer.--H1966
The word Lucifer is Latin means "light-bringing" and "The morning-star, the planet Venus". The reason the word "lucifer" or "day star" or "morning star" is brought up is because these terms are given to the Lord Himself.

The Latin Vulgate, the origin of the word "Lucifer" gave the same title to Christ in 2 Peter 1:19:
et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
The English Translation being:
And so, we have an even firmer prophetic word, to which you would do well to listen, as to a light shining within a dark place, until the day dawns, and the daystar [Lucifer] rises, in your hearts.
Lucifer being translated day star. The King James Version of Isaiah 14:12 and 2 Peter 1:19 are:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!--Isaiah 14:12, KJV 1611 translation based on marginal note

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:--2 Peter 1:19. KJV 1611
Note the King James Bible applies the term "day star" to both a king/Devil (before his fall) and Christ.

Now more modern translations of the bible such as the NASB mention "morning star" in the following:
"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!--Isaiah 14:12

So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.-2 Peter 1:19

And I will give him the morning star.--Revelation 2:28

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.--Revelation 22:16
In summary, yes a pagan goddess is called Queen of Heaven in the Old Testament, but in the Old Testament pagan kings are also called "morning star"(Isaiah 14:12) and "king of kings"(Ezra 7:12, Ezekiel 26:7, Daniel 2:37), which are both terms applied to Christ in the New Testament.

Addendum: For more example of titles of God that were recorded first by pagans see my later articles.